Yes.

Pretty much it is thrust as a service. Keep paying Williams, and they will make sure you have thrust.

There are no such programs for pistons, with good reason.

Mike C.

I’ll be up there this weekend too. Give me a shout!

So NOD?

Thanks for the explanation.

...but this one has two engines!

So NOD?

Mike,

Have you seen or heard of PistonPower? It was started by the guy who created (and later sold) JSSI. Here is their website: http://www.pistonpower.com/

Here is another blurb on the company: http://www.pistonpower.com/twin-turbine-april-2-2018/

Neal

That's pretty cool Neil, how much does it cost?

The program has 3 levels of service so the cost varies. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head but I remember them being very reasonable for the level of care and service you would receive. I highly recommend to anyone that is interested that they contact Ron Zilberbrand at rz@pistonpower.com and set up a phone call to go over the programs. He is very passionate about his company and what it can provide to piston operators.

-Neal

Many years ago I had a Citation Bravo client who's aircraft shed some rivets in the area of the nose cowl lip skin. The rivets of course were ingested and caused compressor blade damage. Unfortunately the rivets holes were the smoking gun as to the cause of the damage not being from a 'foreign' object. Unfortunately the claim was denied based on this.

I can see however if you have a broken probe or vane that caused the downline damage being tough to prove. As it could have been broken due to actual FOD (a small stone for instance) - really tough one there!

Just started.

Another company tried this about 10-15 years ago, though mostly focused on overall maintenance, not just the engine. They lasted less than 18 months.

I predict the service with either charge too much and get few sales, or charge too little and lose money, and will not last more than 3 years in either case. If they go bye bye, then your paid in program equity goes bye bye, too.

There is always something "wrong" with a piston engine. One cylinder a bit low, a small case crack, little oil leak past nose seal, spark plug lead chaffing, and so on. When the owner is paying, those items are fine to leave alone. When someone else is paying, then they all got to be fixed right now. So the economic dynamic changes in these programs. I would expect significant tension between owner and PistonPower over what needs to be done or not.

Those sorts of arguments are far less in the turbine world.

I am expecting they will be evasive about pricing so the only way to find out is to present an exemplar case, someone needs to go through the process to tell us the price. It wouldn't surprise me if they have you sign something to not disclose the price in order to get a quote.

When/if we do get a pricing, it will expose just how much piston engines cost per hour, something that is relatively vague to most owners.

I predict for their highest level of coverage, scheduled and unscheduled, for a GTSIO-520 on a 421C will be about $75/hour. That's $120,000 over a 1600 hour overhaul period.

Mike C.

Many years ago I had a Citation Bravo client who's aircraft shed some rivets in the area of the nose cowl lip skin. The rivets of course were ingested and caused compressor blade damage. Unfortunately the rivets holes were the smoking gun as to the cause of the damage not being from a 'foreign' object. Unfortunately the claim was denied based on this.

I can see however if you have a broken probe or vane that caused the downline damage being tough to prove. As it could have been broken due to actual FOD (a small stone for instance) - really tough one there!

I'm not aware of ANY aviation insurance hull and liability policies that cover 'mechanical breakdown' of components. That said if your piston engine quits due to a thrown rod and you deadstick into a field damaging the aircraft - the aircraft damage you incur due to the forced landing would be covered but your engine damage (failure) would not be. This is customary with any aviation insurance policy. I can't comment on a specific claim you may have experienced but the principal concept of mechanical failure I outlined is customary with all policies.

But if a rivet falls off of the engine cowling and then causes FOD damage, wouldn't the mechanical failure be the rivet falling out? So, insurance wouldn't cover replacing the rivet, but shouldn't it cover the ancillary damage to the engine?

When my nose gear collapsed in my 421 on landing, it was clearly a mechanical failure of the rod end that was connected to the actuator - I ended up eating the cost of the actuator since it wasn't worth the fight to argue that it was the rod end not the actuator (and insurance was actually really good about paying the claim), but if I was dealing with a multi-hundred thousand dollar turbine repair then it would be something I'd fight pretty hard for insurance to pay.

Robert

But if a rivet falls off of the engine cowling and then causes FOD damage, wouldn't the mechanical failure be the rivet falling out? So, insurance wouldn't cover replacing the rivet, but shouldn't it cover the ancillary damage to the engine?

When my nose gear collapsed in my 421 on landing, it was clearly a mechanical failure of the rod end that was connected to the actuator - I ended up eating the cost of the actuator since it wasn't worth the fight to argue that it was the rod end not the actuator (and insurance was actually really good about paying the claim), but if I was dealing with a multi-hundred thousand dollar turbine repair then it would be something I'd fight pretty hard for insurance to pay.



Robert