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17 Nov 2025, 13:43 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 23:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
There is no real difference in OpX for the 3 airframes.


I think what outweighs the op-expense in these planes is the wide variation in same-model AFs. You could get a 340 that you spend 200k to bring it up to spec, essentially doubling your cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 00:05 
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Joined: 04/08/12
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Aircraft: Cessna 414A
Thatcher, I've run three 340s, a 414 and two 421s. Echoing and expanding on a few comments above:

- Systems are quite similar across all three types.

- Pressurization is essentially free, with no maintenance burden.

- Baggage space is a strong point on all three, with nose and wing lockers. Nose lockers are longer on the 414A/421C than on the straight 414/421B...and quite a bit larger than the 340's nose.

- The 340's electro-mechanical gear requires more care and repetitive maintenance than the hydraulic gear on the 414A/421C.

- Geared 421 engines require more TLC and maintenance than direct-drive engines on the 340 and 414, and are less tolerant of pilot inattention.

- A 340 will be a bit faster than a 414. A 421 will be faster yet, but the speed difference across all three is small.

- Insurance is a bit lower on the 340.

- My most expensive annual so far was $12k.

Happy to answer any specific questions you might have, or help in any way. Good luck.

-Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 08:15 
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
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Point of information: there is no spar AD on the 340, 414 or 421


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 08:35 
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Joined: 08/20/09
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Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
For our family of six (young kids) the 421 is barely big enough for long vacations. We usually bulk out (run out of space) before capacity.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 09:18 
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Joined: 10/27/10
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Location: Cambridge, MA (KLWM)
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Username Protected wrote:
Point of information: there is no spar AD on the 340, 414 or 421
2005-12-13 applies to the 414A does it not?


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 10:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
Point of information: there is no spar AD on the 340, 414 or 421
2005-12-13 applies to the 414A does it not?


I stand corrected. Quick review shows no affect below 8500 tt I think

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 11:47 
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Joined: 11/19/14
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Location: St. Louis, MO (KSUS)
Aircraft: 1994 Bonanza A36
Our typical mission is flights to and from Fayetteville, AR picking up college students and going to games. We usually have 2-4 people aboard but sometimes we do squeeze all 6 of us on. It's a 230 nm flight but it would be nice to have pressurization and the ability to get above some of the weather into smoother air. My father is the proprietary owner, I'm just the lucky guy who gets to fly it. We love the space of the 421C, the trailing link gear, and all the baggage space it comes with. The cost to operate one is just pretty high and the overhaul costs can be scary. A cabin class aircraft sure would be nice....


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 12:08 
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Company: Nantucket Rover Repair
Location: Manchester, NH (MHT)
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Username Protected wrote:
Point of information: there is no spar AD on the 340, 414 or 421
2005-12-13 applies to the 414A does it not?


The AD does not apply to any tip tanked model.

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 12:13 
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Our typical mission is flights to and from Fayetteville, AR picking up college students and going to games. We usually have 2-4 people aboard but sometimes we do squeeze all 6 of us on. It's a 230 nm flight but it would be nice to have pressurization and the ability to get above some of the weather into smoother air. ..


1) speed is of little consequence
2) comfort/ease of loading is key

Considered a twin bo?
Would your father consider a partnership? Shouldn't be hard at spirit
Considered a Navajo?

But yeah 421 (b or c) would be an exceptional tool for that mission


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 12:21 
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My mother is very particular about the stability of the aircraft. She gets motion sickness easily. Although I have never flown in one, I hear a 421 is very stable and comfortable. The potty is also a plus even though it may not get that much use. A twin Bo for us just doesn't seem logical because it just doesn't do much more for us than our Bonanza currently does.


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 12:30 
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If you want stability consider the B (and a yaw damper). The tip tanks ride a little smoother due to shock absorption by the wing-end mass.


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 12:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
Our typical mission is flights to and from Fayetteville, AR picking up college students and going to games. We usually have 2-4 people aboard but sometimes we do squeeze all 6 of us on. It's a 230 nm flight but it would be nice to have pressurization and the ability to get above some of the weather into smoother air. ..


1) speed is of little consequence
2) comfort/ease of loading is key

Considered a twin bo?
Would your father consider a partnership? Shouldn't be hard at spirit
Considered a Navajo?

But yeah 421 (b or c) would be an exceptional tool for that mission


Or a Beech 18. I'm always looking for somebody else's mission, to convince them to buy one. So I can live vicariously through them.


https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?ma ... gIRBvD_BwE

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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 13:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
Our typical mission is flights to and from Fayetteville, AR picking up college students and going to games. We usually have 2-4 people aboard but sometimes we do squeeze all 6 of us on. It's a 230 nm flight but it would be nice to have pressurization and the ability to get above some of the weather into smoother air. ..


1) speed is of little consequence
2) comfort/ease of loading is key


totally agree. once at altitude, it's unbelievably comfortable.

things I would never give up in our twin:
1) the huge nose storage (I know it's only a 340, but I can get 4 roller bags, plus a large "beach bag" in the nose. plus the set of tools and spares I carry. the only thing we bring in the cabin is food and games/ipads.

2) the airstair door- awesome ramp presence. these are much bigger planes than the A36.

3) pressurization. even if I was only doing 177 ground (yesterdays average at 31 gph; I was intentionally flying slow to save gas since we went MTH-PGV nonstop), we were at 21,000 where it was -8C, smooth as silk, and I was over 99% of the weather. in a B58 I would have been in the bumps for most of the trip, or the whole family would have been on O2.

4) my 340 has a portable toilet for the girls. it's not glamorous, but it'll do for a family.

I would have bought a KA90 rather than a 421. I think the op-ex is the same , but there are more choices in KA90s for sale. 340 is at about 550/hr all-in at 150 hours per year. this year will be more since I bought an engine, and the plane was down 14 weeks (engine, turbo, and prop OH). been an unlucky year.

for now it's good. in 4 years I'm buying a turbine.
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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 13:32 
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I would have bought a KA90 rather than a 421. I think the op-ex is the same , but there are more choices in KA90s for sale.


Not sure how to figure that with same speed @ twice the fuel burn and all the calendar items. (Not to mention ramp fees)


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 Post subject: Re: Operating Costs of C340 vs 414/421?
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 13:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
I would have bought a KA90 rather than a 421. I think the op-ex is the same , but there are more choices in KA90s for sale.


Not sure how to figure that with same speed @ twice the fuel burn and all the calendar items. (Not to mention ramp fees)


Agreed. A GOOD 421C has a negligible OpX difference over a 340.

Regarding the geared engines. My 421C had every set go to TBO without issue (except for a casting issue on one cylinder before I owned it). They are easy to operate, run VERY cool (read as less maintenance), have the the best cowlings of all pistons, and always have big power to spare. The C model (Citation) wing gives the best ride. A C90 is a downgrade for stability. It is very smooth and stable.


To the OP:

When you are getting advice, make sure to ask the person how many hours they owned their plane for. Some guys are willing to share their opinions based on very little experience. This is especially true for piston twins. Lots of OWTs based on nothing.

Best,
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