shh, get out of here with that logic, BT is chock full of angry old men who like to chase windmills

I agree. Why does Cessna not get this. Maybe they do but would say it's too hard, well then just quit. Do it or quit. I would say the same about Mooney. Two doors, no big deal. Get a chute in there and sales triple+ !

You mean like SR22T vs Acclaim?

1100lb fully equipped useful load vs 850lb if you're lucky (or 900 on the G36 if TKS equipped, yes you can bump it up to 4000lb on 300hp and enjoy some "spectacular" climb rates, great if you're a bird watcher, who doesn't want to see what's in that nest in the pines at the end of the runway)?

Parts over nighted from factory vs a vague promise of something 6 months from now.

Regular software updates vs waiting 10 years for WASS/ADS-B update.

Mooney/G36 are pretty to look at in the maintenance hangar. Cirrus can actually make money for your company because it's in the air.

I'm with Tony, my Mooney has been BY FAR my most economical airplane to own and operate. It very, rarely breaks and I have never ever had an issue with service or parts. I'd go so far as to say that the factory service center have always been incredibly accommodating with questions about anything. It's been a phenomenal airplane to own..........

now if it had a chute, I'd most probably prefer it over the Cirrus as I like the way it flies, especially ifr, which I don't much anymore because it don't have a chute

Owned two, M20M, M20TN, loved them, but waited on parts many many times (electrical parts, have fun getting a voltage regulator or a dimmer out of Mooney, yes I waited 6 months for a cabin dimmer, no, nobody will repair them legally with an 8130 which poses major problems for Europeans).

People who spend $700K on an aircraft are not in a business of figuring things out themselves. Too busy doing other things to keep on making payments

Is that 980lb with TKS or A/C? Because SR22 delivers 1100lb with both installed and many other goodies. A comparable M20TN has 800lb useful (960 - 110 for tks, 50 for A/C), now subtract 150lb for BRS, and we're talking 650lb. A parachute alone will not save Mooney.

Both the TTx or M20M suffer from landing weight limitation as well, in our theoretical 650lb useful load M20TN with 2 aboard and luggage (400lb), you would be limited to landing with 13 gallons on board, hardly an IFR reserve.

If it fits in the Bravo, it will fit just fine in a SR22. Both have folding back seats, with seats up, there is not much difference between the baggage areas. Never hauled a bike, but I have hauled skis in both (176cm). I don't see a bike fitting thru either set of doors without major disassembly.

Wonderful aircraft who's time has passed.

Now, 200knots at FL180 on 12.5gph, that I did appreciate. No SR22T can do that.

What year is your Bravo? New or old style landing gear transmission? If old style, good luck finding the clutch spring, whole assembly needs to be replaced. IIRC that set me back another 30EU-AMUs and that was when the Euro was strong. Americans have it easy when it comes to maintenance. EU folks have to keep them maintained like airlines (all SBs, 8130 for everything), etc, etc.

Let's see which sells better:

Utility category AND VNE of 235 or chute?

me not so smart but tinks chute won!

I think the stall speed would still be at/under 61 at higher gross.

Now if Textron would lose the Utility category to be able to add 200 pounds to useful load and add a chute....game on.

Even more I bet! I would have bought one instead of an SR22 if it had the chute. It's a superb design. Lance's mistake (besides not putting in a chute - but then nobody else had at that point in time) was qualifying it in the utility category. Required adding too much structural weight that people don't care about. I'll easily accept the extra weight for air conditioning, easily accept extra weight for the chute, and if my missions required extra weight for turbos; but I would not be happy taking a hit to payload to be able to do some aerobatics. Still, I would have bought one with A/C and a chute anyway despite that - the plane is just amazing.

Good post, Wally. Agree with everything you said.

I would, however, still go to the CPPP's for training.

Look's like the cabin length is similar to the originals A36's- before the extended baggage was added. If they could redesign the cabin for club seating for six and add a chute- it would be a game changer.

If people wanted safety wouldn't they buy two engines.


And if they added a chute then it would be a 2 person plane.

All this chute talk puzzles me.
Doesn't the chute still have you hitting the ground at a "big thud" rate.

Does everyone know that if their engine fails, they can slowly just trim the stab trim all the way back, and keep the airplane wings level with the rudder (ruddervators) using the turn coordinator. The key to this is to not pull back on the yoke, in fact I've practiced this not holding onto the yoke at all, the airplane stays wings level with the rudder control.

Our airplanes are designed with a certain sized elevator trim tab with certain travel limits, so that it cannot move the elevator enough to stall the airplane.

You'll end up just above stall, be it in clean or dirty config.

Go out and try it, with some altitude of course.

Remember once you're ready to power back up, trim forward, or you'll be climbing like a homesick angel.

Owned two, M20M, M20TN, loved them, but waited on parts many many times (electrical parts, have fun getting a voltage regulator or a dimmer out of Mooney, yes I waited 6 months for a cabin dimmer, no, nobody will repair them legally with an 8130 which poses major problems for Europeans).

People who spend $700K on an aircraft are not in a business of figuring things out themselves. Too busy doing other things to keep on making payments

Is that 980lb with TKS or A/C? Because SR22 delivers 1100lb with both installed and many other goodies. A comparable M20TN has 800lb useful (960 - 110 for tks, 50 for A/C), now subtract 150lb for BRS, and we're talking 650lb. A parachute alone will not save Mooney.

Both the TTx or M20M suffer from landing weight limitation as well, in our theoretical 650lb useful load M20TN with 2 aboard and luggage (400lb), you would be limited to landing with 13 gallons on board, hardly an IFR reserve.

If it fits in the Bravo, it will fit just fine in a SR22. Both have folding back seats, with seats up, there is not much difference between the baggage areas. Never hauled a bike, but I have hauled skis in both (176cm). I don't see a bike fitting thru either set of doors without major disassembly.

Wonderful aircraft who's time has passed.

Now, 200knots at FL180 on 12.5gph, that I did appreciate. No SR22T can do that.

What year is your Bravo? New or old style landing gear transmission? If old style, good luck finding the clutch spring, whole assembly needs to be replaced. IIRC that set me back another 30EU-AMUs and that was when the Euro was strong. Americans have it easy when it comes to maintenance. EU folks have to keep them maintained like airlines (all SBs, 8130 for everything), etc, etc.

The chute is a POWERFUL sales tool....I think that is what most are saying.

All good but you still have to put it on the ground somewhere
Night, IFR ...... That's what scares folks.
I would love to have one. Would I spend 25k to add it ? Probably not. And I still fly at night when needed and IFR if that's in the the cards. Didn't scare me before there were chutes, doesn't scare me now.

Getting away from the whole divisiveness of the chute and focusing on Arlen's essential point in beginning the thread I am delighted to see Textron actually trying to sell piston airplanes to anyone. That is an improvement over the recent past. Perhaps, with effort, they will sell some and remain in this part of the business.

That's an impressive pack job!

Were you a freight pilot?