BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 09:34

Username Protected wrote:

Your jet consultant specialize in Citations? I hope so.

- Understand the costs to get the plane to WAAS and ADS-B. Some of the CJ2s are the most difficult and expensive to get there
- Watch out for the planes that had pilot relief tubes and corrosion issues
- You have to test fly a plane to FL410 - FL450 and confirm it makes close to book speeds. Some Cj2s had roll cock issues and the aerodynamic fixes for that affected the speed.
- Understand how the precooler life limits affect the aircraft you are considering

Early SN CJ2s can be bargains or money pits. Shop wisely.

You will find a Citation easier and more enjoyable to fly then your KA. And for 300+ hours a year your operating costs should be less.

Very good advice. Also talk to other CJ2 operators to get a good idea on costs and things to watch out for. On the ADS-B I've heard of some people doing Garmin GTN 750's, but don't know if that will get you there. I know the PL21 can be complicated and expensive to upgrade. Allen probably knows better than anyone what the best path is.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 10:13

It is near impossible to beat a CJ2 if it fits your mission. They are a lot of airplane for the money and very economical to operate. I agree that the Ultra / Encore is more airplane but the cost of operation hurts unless you have to have the range.

Everyone that operates a CJ2 is happy with the airplane, it's simple, easy to fly and easy to work on.

I agree with the statement above, make sure that your guy is a Citation guy and that he is exclusively working for you (you and only you paying him) that is the only way to know for sure that he is completely unbiased and looking out for you.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 10:20

Username Protected wrote:

Ever step into a phenom 300? I wasn't impressed. Particularly for that much money. I'm sure the proline is great but I suspect I'll be behind a Garmin.

I have, a few too many times

I was impressed actually. I like the Garmin setup. The Phenom is as good as, if not better economically than the CJ3/4

The CJ's have less room than the PC12 and the pilot seat was tight for me. I was scrunched actually. If I'm gonna drop 4-6MM on an airplane, there better be place for my long legs......all of em

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 10:31

Username Protected wrote:

Good point. At 6'3" I've already been warned.Friend flies a CJ1. My problem is I eventually want something transcontinental and I'd rather stay with one outfit. And one type avionics

CJ2/3/4 have more cockpit legroom then CJ/CJ1.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 11:04

Hi John,

After buying, flying, and maintaining several, I can tell you that there are no better airplanes in my opinion if the range/payload profile fits your mission. Fantastic plane. Of course, a CJ3 is even better ... :cheers:

Bruce

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 11:24

Phenoms seem nice but they don't seem to have the good runway performance of a CJs... or am I misunderstanding that?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 11:46

Username Protected wrote:

You'll love the CJ. Will Loft give a discount on two? I need to get down there too so maybe I'll join you!

Adam, aren't you flying a 4?
Prefer it to the Pilatus?
What's the 'real' cruise difference on a 1000 nautical mile flight?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 11:53

They are all toys! We are just boys with our toys!

I like the CJ2 it's the beginning of the jets that make sense. Moving from a TP to a lesser jet than the CJ2 does not make sense in my mind.

5 people might be a stretch but you can't fill every mission with one plane.

I have a little experience with PL21 about 50 hours. Never did get the hang of it?

If it's your only ride then you will adapt and learn to love the good and complain about the bad.

Are you considering a straight CJ2 or the + and why?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 11:56

Username Protected wrote:

Hi John,

After buying, flying, and maintaining several, I can tell you that there are no better airplanes in my opinion if the range/payload profile fits your mission. Fantastic plane. Of course, a CJ3 is even better ... :cheers:

Bruce

Bruce, we know you are a phenom guy too......opinion on the 300?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 11:58

Having done a bit of W&B with these things with a defined range mission 5 people can throw a big difference in the mix vs. say 2-3 passengers.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 12:25

Username Protected wrote:

Having done a bit of W&B with these things with a defined range mission 5 people can throw a big difference in the mix vs. say 2-3 passengers.

CJ2 BEW - around 7700lbs
Max Ramp Weight - 12,500
Max takeoff weight - 12,375
Max landing weight - 11,500
Zero fuel weight - 9,300
Max fuel - 3,966
Max payload @ max fuel - 709 - 834 lbs depending on your taxi fuel used

Figure for every 200 lb of additional payload and less fuel you lose 15 minutes of cruise and around 95 miles of range.

1600 lbs is max payload due to the ZFW.

You can always carry at least 3200 lbs of fuel due to ZFW.

Passenger loading affects up to 766 lbs of fuel- about 1 hour at cruise and 380 - 400 nm of range.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 15:23

[quote="Allen Wolpert".

- Understand how the precooler life limits affect the aircraft you are considering

Man, you are correct on this one. We just had to replace two perfectly good precoolers due to their 9 yr life limit and the cost was shocking!

My advice before buying any CJ would be to get familiar with the parts/engines programs and be weary of purchasing one that isn't at least on Pro Parts.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 19:37

What is not covered on Pro Parts? If an airplane is all squared away and paid current on pro parts, would the pre-coolers be covered?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 20:25

Username Protected wrote:

Hi John,

After buying, flying, and maintaining several, I can tell you that there are no better airplanes in my opinion if the range/payload profile fits your mission. Fantastic plane. Of course, a CJ3 is even better ... :cheers:

Bruce

Bruce, we know you are a phenom guy too......opinion on the 300?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2016, 20:45

Username Protected wrote:

What is not covered on Pro Parts? If an airplane is all squared away and paid current on pro parts, would the pre-coolers be covered?

It depends. Unless it's excluded by model, ProParts will likely cover a pre-cooler if it fails. However, if it's replaced as a service bulletin, it won't be covered. You have to look at the maintenance schedules and service bulletins in their entirety to get your arms around what it is that you will be paying for outside of the programs. In the end, you're paying for it either way. The programs amortize it for you by the hour, whereas everything outside of the programs you're paying for as incurred. I still have some difficulty understanding what's included/excluded.

CJ2?