Yes it's always interesting to fly in between Cyprus/Lebanon/Palestine/Egypt.

I used to fly for ICCAT, looking for blue-fin tuna, 1000 or 500ft above the water. Lucky as I am, it was right when the French thought the Rafale needed another test-run and bombed Libya. Never got intercepted or anything, although my colleague had a talk with an atl2. Most of the time the problem was that we were so low Malta could not hear us, and relaying through an airliner was not always easy, so they would worry...
Fun times!

Wow, did you see his AOA? He had that jet hanging to go that slow.

Probably best to not antagonize them, but would have been funny to see him trail you if you slowed down.

It is no trouble shadowing anyone flying slow either. There is always the vertical (or some part thereof) for use too.
We escort helos too.

Hello,

no they didn't try to contact me they just observed very closly
actually since it is my first time with such an experience it was pretty scary at the beginning and i tought how to speed up rather than slowing down....

pretty cool video. not sure i'd ever fly within 5 miles of a carrier though- nerves are a bit raw these days overseas...

Just flew within five miles of a carrier this morning. Should have taken a picture.

Actually my wife did but it was of the inside of the plane.

This has been bugging me since the beginning of this thread so after researching a lot, let me ask about this.
But just before, this post will most likely piss off some people. It's meant to be thought provoking, and to find the laws and regulations I've forgotten, since I'm in the process of writing another OM for a company.
And after what happened last week in Turkey (where we operated for 6 months last year), I'm trying to cover a lot of grey areas in the OM. The CAA only sends me back to ICAO...

So here we go.
First off, overflying a foreign carrier, or any military vessel, in the international waters.
In the SERA (Standardised European Rules of Air), which governs the ops of any european registered airplane, no distinction is made between civilian and military vessels.
So at this point the only requirement is 500ft from the vessel, within the european airspace, or outside any FIR.

I've also looked through my military doc which is in France calld CAM, for Circulation Aérienne Militaire. (for those interested: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTe ... 0020830648)

They get into Montego Bay (kind of expected). First the distinction between territorial and high seas-> 12NM.
And it defines a volume around aircraft-carrying vessels, in two situations:
-within the limits of the french airspace, in which case it's a P, D, or R zone which gets notam and activation, and there is a volume around it which is defined depending on the size of the boat
-within high seas, it is only recommended to follow such volumes, with a note mentioning avoiding less than 2Nm and 500ft in the case of foreign vessels, unless the mission warrants it.
But again, this only applies to military planes, for civilians, SERA, 500ft.
Strangely, per maritime law, the distance is higher depending on the flag the ship is displaying (type of ops). And it varies per state, I seem to recall 500yds in the US, for us ColReg 72 applies all the time.

Second part, in relation to Montego Bay. On a boat, in high seas, a foreign coast-guard or military boat can intercept/board you IF they have approval from the state of your flag or if you present immediate danger (I'm simplifying).
ICAO issued doc 9433 with regards to interception protocols, and it details the conditions of such operations towards a civilian airplane:
http://www.wing.com.ua/images/stories/l ... d/9433.pdf
Within a national airspace (including FIR apparently, so that's pretty big), one can be intercepted by the national state. There is a little leeway given to each contracting state, in that it also covers airplane about to enter the airspace.
And of course there is still the possibility to intercept an airplane that presents a danger to other planes (1.2.2 c).

I would also expect to be intercepted and have to follow the indications of any state plane from the state of registration of my airplane, outside of that state airplane.
That is to say, if I'm flying an F-reg plane in the uncontrolled airspace over the Mediterranean Sea, outside of the FIR, and get intercepted by a 406 from the customs or a pair of French Navy Rafale, sure. But if I'm intercepted by a foreign jetfighter in that airspace, unless per Montego Bay they have approval from the state of registration, or I constitute a hazard to other aircraft, I don't see the legal justification for it.

And I'm wondering to what extent I need to comply, because I haven't found anything forcing me to do so (besides the whole "it's got weapons").

So I am certain I am missing some regulations, and I'd love to find out, because after asking my former navy friends, and the caa, besides the uneasiness, we haven't got many solid laws to follow at this point.

How would they know the registration of an unknown aircraft without getting a VID?

ADS-B?

Fabien,

Cool video.

Looks like you are in the right.

May not matter. Think about being a naval captain in charge of that ship. Unless I was in radio communication I would give them some more space.

There are still Americans alive who sacrificed greatly to free the med. Plan on there presence for years to come.

Is ADS-B output a "positive identification"?

Are you going to trust the security of your carrier to the output of a field-programmable and cryptographically insecure ADS-B device?

Maybe I've watched too much Top Gun, but I don't see a problem with an intercept/visual ID if the identify of the aircraft can't be positively determined some other way. Ofer's original post doesn't indicate whether he was in radio comms with ATC or not.

I'm certainly not advocating for reckless behaviour, and I have respect for the service of any armed forces. I've been on those vessels during some ops and I can understand some of the challenges the captain faces. I'm just trying to find out the legality of it in a situation where any armed force seems to have no jurisdiction.
I agree with the overfly of any boat, I've always tried to give as much as possible, but sometimes my job can require that I fly to specific waypoints at specific altitudes, so I'm hoping that I'm missing something besides the 500ft.

As to the interception, let's say tomorrow I get to fly over the Med. again. I get intercepted by an airplane outside of any FIR and it requests I follow him.
It's turkish and there's been a coup. It's israeli and they want to do the same trick they did with the french-flagged boat a few years ago. It's an F-16 and I have no way of finding out whether it's greek, american, turkish, israeli or egyptian...It's not about the americans in the Med., which they are free to navigate as much as I am (no more, no less), just the actual law in those waters/airspaces.

I'm certainly not advocating for reckless behaviour, and I have respect for the service of any armed forces. I've been on those vessels during some ops and I can understand some of the challenges the captain faces. I'm just trying to find out the legality of it in a situation where any armed force seems to have no jurisdiction.
I agree with the overfly of any boat, I've always tried to give as much as possible, but sometimes my job can require that I fly to specific waypoints at specific altitudes, so I'm hoping that I'm missing something besides the 500ft.

As to the interception, let's say tomorrow I get to fly over the Med. again. I get intercepted by an airplane outside of any FIR and it requests I follow him.
It's turkish and there's been a coup. It's israeli and they want to do the same trick they did with the french-flagged boat a few years ago. It's an F-16 and I have no way of finding out whether it's greek, american, turkish, israeli or egyptian...It's not about the americans, which they are free to navigate as much as I am (no more, no less), just the actual law in those waters/airspaces.

I would give the carrier a call an guard.

Thanks Richard, that's what I'm looking for

if that's an ADIZ, no problem, although in some places it can get interesting. For instance they can overlap. I've had that scenario last year in Finland with Russia, or in Poland with Belarus (though it seems this year when we flew it, they were less problems in Poland).

I like your approach, and I would most likely react the same way, obey to a certain extent, let them id the plane if they don't behave like cowboys, but I'm still in charge and not going to follow. Obviously broadcast it on 121 and elt if need be, also get in touch with one of the air france flights around or something, if I'm really not liking the orders.

It just bothers me very much that this seems to be a grey area in aviation whereas it's not for boats for instance, and I would like to find a good protocol for my om, or at least my SOP. Even more I would like to find the regs!

Booty call I need to use one of these days, it's hilarious. I've already read back information Unicorn instead of uniform, next time ATC will send a fighter for fear I'm in the middle of a hypoxia