BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 09:37

Username Protected wrote:

Insurance is a pain. No problem finding it. But not cheap. Full coverage for me is about $9000. That's about the lowest I know of. 13-14k is common. I have about 8000tt. So I just do liability. Around $3000.

See and that's what the LX7 is trying to overcome. The overall cost of the plane will go up, but with the added safety the rates should be closer to a normal plane and not the crazy high rates they currently are.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 09:47

Username Protected wrote:

Insurance is a pain. No problem finding it. But not cheap. Full coverage for me is about $9000. That's about the lowest I know of. 13-14k is common. I have about 8000tt. So I just do liability. Around $3000.

See and that's what the LX7 is trying to overcome. The overall cost of the plane will go up, but with the added safety the rates should be closer to a normal plane and not the crazy high rates they currently are.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 09:54

Username Protected wrote:

See and that's what the LX7 is trying to overcome. The overall cost of the plane will go up, but with the added safety the rates should be closer to a normal plane and not the crazy high rates they currently are.

Will it though? The actuaries would be nuts to place them in the same category, given all the changes- it's basically a different airplane, this will leave the IVP owners siting on an ever decreasing pool of planes and rates will have to go up if coverage is even offered at all. Can the current IVP market even suffer any more hull losses?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 10:00

Username Protected wrote:

It won't change the rates for current IV-P planes obviously, just the LX7 converted ones.

if they were just offering a new airplane, your last statement would be true- but the LX7 will only be offered by converting EXISTING IVP airplanes, which decreases the insured market/pool

if you don't care about insurance, if the LX7 is successful, the IVP will probably be cheaper to buy than it's value in parts soon

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 10:17

Username Protected wrote:

Well, like I said earlier, RDD has been talking with insurance companies and they have been getting very good feedback. They are saying that if the plane can do what RDD claims, that they can offer rates close to what the Cirrus has.

It won't change the rates for current IV-P planes obviously, just the LX7 converted ones.

I for one will be very interested in seeing how this plays out and certainly wish RDD success in convincing the insurers of the risk. I'm not very optimistic that the rates will parallel the Cirrus - Cirrus has over 6,000+ units in the 'premium generation pool' which allows for the rates they are seeing (coupled with other factors). The Lancair product doesn't even scratch that number of in service units (ie premium generating) so I can't see insurers signing up for comparable rates without a lengthy period of watching the entry into service for this aircraft. I think a good number of Lancair owners also might just carry liability only and not full hull (at least for The IVP and IVP Turbine variants).

As a comparison the Epic product has about 60 units flying and the Epic rates are no where near what the TBM or Meridian are seeing AND that is on the back of no significant or fatal losses with an EPIC.

Again - certainly wish RDD success in this endeavor.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 18:10

Username Protected wrote:

It won't change the rates for current IV-P planes obviously, just the LX7 converted ones.

if they were just offering a new airplane, your last statement would be true- but the LX7 will only be offered by converting EXISTING IVP airplanes, which decreases the insured market/pool

if you don't care about insurance, if the LX7 is successful, the IVP will probably be cheaper to buy than it's value in parts soon

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 18:11

Username Protected wrote:

Well, like I said earlier, RDD has been talking with insurance companies and they have been getting very good feedback. They are saying that if the plane can do what RDD claims, that they can offer rates close to what the Cirrus has.

It won't change the rates for current IV-P planes obviously, just the LX7 converted ones.

I for one will be very interested in seeing how this plays out and certainly wish RDD success in convincing the insurers of the risk. I'm not very optimistic that the rates will parallel the Cirrus - Cirrus has over 6,000+ units in the 'premium generation pool' which allows for the rates they are seeing (coupled with other factors). The Lancair product doesn't even scratch that number of in service units (ie premium generating) so I can't see insurers signing up for comparable rates without a lengthy period of watching the entry into service for this aircraft. I think a good number of Lancair owners also might just carry liability only and not full hull (at least for The IVP and IVP Turbine variants).

As a comparison the Epic product has about 60 units flying and the Epic rates are no where near what the TBM or Meridian are seeing AND that is on the back of no significant or fatal losses with an EPIC.

Again - certainly wish RDD success in this endeavor.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Jun 2016, 11:00

Username Protected wrote:

I obviously don't know much about insurance.

think of it like an HOA, if more home owners are paying dues in the neighborhood, you have more money to work with to build things like a club house, pool, etc- if homes are getting foreclosed or not paying dues, funds dry up, so do the amenities

same with insurance, more people paying premiums in the pool = lower rates for everyone, if nobody has a hull loss or large payout, the rates can further drop....more planes entering the pool lower the rates (cirrus is making how many new planes per year?)

they aren't making any more IVP's, and with the cheaper fuel lately, they aren't crashing any less frequently.....if you decrease the pool from the other end by rebuilding IVP's as LX7's, then there is a decreasing quantity in the insurable pool

this can only drive rates up for IVP owners, and has zero effect on LX7...by the way, the evolution has been out for what, 6-7 years now? and they have 60 flying? it will take a while before the epic or LX7 hits those fleet numbers

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2016, 18:12

Username Protected wrote:

And that's awfully close to the price for an Evolution (piston & PT6 versions, respectively) which is a lot more airplane, beneficiary of 20+ years of experience (and lots of computers) after the IV. An Evolution would also be all-new parts, none carried over from the well-used donor IV of an LX7. The LX7 is smaller, but also therefore faster than an Evolution with the same power. I don't know if that is a worthwhile tradeoff for enough people.

Not fully understanding this comment. The only thing that is kept of the original IV-P is the top of the fuselage. The wing, nose and tail are all brand new, redesigned with the latest technology's in airflow and computer models.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2016, 18:19

Username Protected wrote:

In addition, why does the IV-P have a bad reputation?

The LX7 is a nice compromise for people who want to go fast NOW but want to get out of their Cirrus or whatever and can't make the jump to an evolution

This is the problem they're attempting to solve

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/db ... cType=LNC4

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2016, 19:36

Username Protected wrote:

Makes me ponder.. Why do they need a donor plane then? I mean there's little left of the original plane and it would be a stronger structure if it were not cut in half where your speaking of in addition to the top seam line.

In addition, why does the IV-P have a bad reputation?

By using a donor plane they don't have to refile for an airworthiness certificate and all the work can be done by RDD, so the owner won't have to do any of the "build".

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Jun 2016, 18:16

Username Protected wrote:

In addition, why does the IV-P have a bad reputation?

The LX7 is a nice compromise for people who want to go fast NOW but want to get out of their Cirrus or whatever and can't make the jump to an evolution

This is the problem they're attempting to solve

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/db ... cType=LNC4