What's that?

It was airworthy, in fact I test flew it and we flew it the 2hrs up to my mechanic. But it certainly needed some work done to it. I've spent about $30-35K on it so far, and it's getting close to be released. Obviously, the interior is a pink mess and the panel is like a 60's submarine. Doesn't even have GPS. So if you add the $50K+ you'll need to get that up to modern standards, it chips away.

Seller was attached to plane and didn't want it sold to someone who'd just break it up and sell the engines. He'd turned down buyers that wanted to do that. I passed the smell test, I suppose, by promising him that I'd keep her flying. But yes, the engines should pretty much fetch what I gave for it, although one of the engines will need a HSI in 137 cycles, so that's a cool $50K cost in the next 2 years.

But one kind of has to be cool with the fact that I'm probably its last owner. The resale value will recover even less of what you spend on her than a more known entity where you can recoup som of that. But at the same time, for about $250-300K all in, with a nice panel, new paint, new interior I have a turbine that does 250kts and burns 54gal/hr. Not too shabby.

You'll be easily double that by the time it is truly airworthy. Your purchase price is really the sum of everything you spend to buy it and get it flying.

Mike C.

You'll be easily double that by the time it is truly airworthy. Your purchase price is really the sum of everything you spend to buy it and get it flying.

Mike C.

I'd budget $50-75K for the first 100 hours as shakedown money. There are things wrong with it you don't know about yet and this will come to light during early operation.

The fact it is sitting in the maintenance hangar so long means it gets infected with new problems. I swear squawks are a form of communicable disease, jumping from one plane to the next.

Mike C.

Adam,

You know you are a different kind of airplane buyer. Most guys will not experience numbers close to the way you do things. Nothing wrong with it, but if I buy a plane it needs to be operational within 30 days and ready for 65,000NM with no AOG events every year.

I knocked $1K off every week on my T210L. I told buyers this, too, so they knew.

Created a sense of urgency for buyers. The prospect of losing out on the plane to someone else seemed more motivating than arguing for the lowest price. It made it plain that they were not so much negotiating with me but competing with another potential buyer. When buyers tried to negotiate down, I simply said it will be that price in X weeks, call then. Really cut down on the tire kickers.

I first did this with a house for sale. It was originally because price changes were put in the front of the weekly MLS booklet sent to agents (prior to Internet), and agents tended to only read the new listings or changes section every week. So if you changed price every week, your property was always listed in that section and it got more visibility. The house sold for more than the agent expected and quicker, so it seemed to work.

Later I learned this is what is called a "Dutch auction" or "clock auction".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction

Mike C.

The logbooks might have been, but the actual airplane probably wasn't, as you now know.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, it is just time and money consuming. It rarely works out economically to buy the fixer upper. But on the plus side, you get to really dig into your airplane early and make it the way you want, and there is always the chance the "ready to go" airplane you would have paid more for is more of a fixer upper than it appeared.

There is also that class of owner who wants to work on the plane as much as fly it. Typically they aren't turbine owners...

Mike C.

In that case, every plane I've ever sold has been a Dutch auction.

The logbooks might have been, but the actual airplane probably wasn't, as you now know.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, it is just time and money consuming. It rarely works out economically to buy the fixer upper. But on the plus side, you get to really dig into your airplane early and make it the way you want, and there is always the chance the "ready to go" airplane you would have paid more for is more of a fixer upper than it appeared.

There is also that class of owner who wants to work on the plane as much as fly it. Typically they aren't turbine owners...

Mike C.

The second one, probably by a lot...unless you're going to put in a ton of unpaid hours to get it there.

To turn a $115K plane into a $300K plane takes a lot more than $185K if you're writing checks for all of it.

Having BTDT, buy the finished airplane and save $$.

If you have the cash, yes. If not, the financed plane over 15 years will be $20-22K in interest and principal alone per year. You're $150K in the hole on interest over the 15 years you own it, assuming you don't pay any principal. That's a lot of money for upgrades.

Principal is not an expense in your scenario.

$9K per year in interest is a fraction of what restoring an airplane to nealry triple its market value will cost. You might get half your money back. None of these numbers really make sense for a turbine owner imho. This is piston twin territory.

It works best for those with Aviation Maintenance Experience or who have been in the Aircraft production and MRO business. For those, a very thorough inspection (beyond just a "pre-buy" which IMHO is still just a SWAG) is a requirement and it exposes as many faults and conditions not normally considered squawks or un-airworthy.

As mentioned; Logbooks can appear complete, competent and still lie by either omission or in how the work was described.

I had an aircraft that previous owners never disclosed TWO nose-wheel failures; one with propstrike, one without (not sure how that was possible). All the logbooks showed was a repair of the nose gear doors, skins and the installation of a Factory Reman and a OH prop. Certainly solved the problem, but the books didnt mention anything.

The Bulletin Boards are full of mechanics, AP/IA's who wait for a candidate Aircraft to roll in and get snapped up for a song; perform the work themselves (ususally 75%of the repair cost is labor).

Another example here in BT is the Twin Bonaza Section..... lots of guys restoring and flipping planes. These guys completely discount thier time and effort and make workarounds to make thier planes suitable for resale (which they eventually will, regardless).



Certainly, the average airplane buyer cannot rely on buying a fixer and come out ahead, unless he does the work himself. Its just Arithmetic. You pay now, or you pay later.

Right now, Im looking at an Aero Commander 500B "Fixer". They seller hasnt resolved to sell it for what it's worth and will eventually; he just doesnt know it yet. He can only see what he has in it; which in my opinion was too much. I think thats why he wants out of it, but wont admit it.

BTW, I flipped cars, engines, houses, electronics, machine tools and even a company. You gotta know what you're buying; else, its an exercise in futility and no one wants to waste thier time. Its the only thing you have.