Jerry, that's a great sample set of both types. If you laid all your receipts on the table for each, what would you guess the delta in costs of the 421 is over the 340 (capital costs aside)? If you were to do it all over again with a family of 4 and felt like a 340 would have enough room and UL, would you opt for the 340 again or would you spring for the 421?

Hmm, I thought I recalled that the A model introduced the long nose, it was the original 421 (no letter qualifiers) that had the short nose.

edit: Regardless, I personally would never buy either of those early models. I would get a C if at all possible.

https://www.twincessna.org/twin-cessna421.htm has model change details.

The '73-'75 B models are a reasonable option. For all the fuss made about the complex systems, they are the same as all the other Cessna twins. C model is better, B model is fine.

Cliff,

Adding to the excellent advice everyone has provided so far, I would like to chip in having had a 340 which I flew an average of 3-5 hundred hours x year for the last 4 years as well as another 340 I currently have on lease for my company:

1. The 340 is fast, reliable and filled my mission well. My family size is about the same as what you describe and it was big enough for our needs (below is a picture of the gang just before going on a beach vacation). The 340 was very comfortable and it was similar to a family SUV.

2. These are 30-40 year old complex pressurized piston twins (340/414/421) and your cost of ownership will go a little beyond just fuel burn and "typical" annual inspections. The reliability and ongoing cost will be proportional to the "quality" of aircraft you start with, and how much deferred maintenance it has. Like Jerry suggests, the most important step in buying one of these aircraft is the thoroughness of the prebuy along with a good dose of expert guidance from someone who knows these airplanes. If it was me doing it all over again, I would have an annual as my prebuy and would get Tony Saxton or Juan Oviedo to help along (I don't know Peter, but if Jerry says he is good, take his word for it). If you do this, it will be the cheapest annual you'll have and the best way to uncover surprises if there are any.

3. These aircraft have a very extensive set of upgrades which in some cases transform the utility and performance in a very significant way. There are strakes, VGs, RAM HP improvements, intercoolers, STOL kits, etc., etc. On the 340 side, I would probably focus on a RAM VI or VII as my choice (which includes the VGs - a must).

4. If your forsee, size as being a consideration, the long nose of the newer 414's and 421's is a real asset as well as the wider and longer cabin - probably one of the best of the piston twin fleet.

5. The 421 is very quiet and a great performer. My word of caution is to look carefully at how many times the engines have been overhauled and if the crankcases were replaced with new crankcases or overhauled on the last overhaul. There have been a string of cracked cases on 421's given how hard these engines work, and after 2 or 3 overhauls they seem to be developing issues. Otherwise, the GTSIO is a superb engine if operated properly.

6. The 414AW (the newer one with winglets) is as fast as the 340 and has the same engines as the 340 so it may be an option vs. the 421 if you can't find a good one.

7. Purchase price may also be a consideration for you - a top of the market (clean, good MX, full of options, glass, etc.) 340 will be in the high 300's to lower 400's. A top of the market 414 is in the 400-500 range while a top of the market 421 may be pushing high 500.

Good luck on your search and if I can help you in any way let me know.

I agree with Alex.

Unless you fly above FL200 a lot, a 421B will out perform a C. I loved my B. I'm on the east coast and I typically flew it between FL160-180. On the east coast it's rarely advantageous to fly higher. You definitely want a 73-75 B model with the longer cabin.

The Twin Cessna organization did a cost survey a couple of years ago and their members reported about a hundred dollars an hour difference between the 340 and 414 and another $100 between the 414 and 421 IIRC. They may have updated the survey since then and perhaps someone here has access to is.

For an all-fleet average that makes sense. Still true that airframe variations will easily swamp a long term $100/hr difference. It only take very slight bad luck to make one 340 cost more than one 421 over 10 years. This is like comparing a warrior and an archer. Not all that different.

I agree with your point Charles. Often in aviation, it seems to me, we worry over pennies in our analyses while the hundred dollar (or worse) bills flowing out of our bank accounts go unnoticed.

I manage a early 421C. Prior to that, we leased a 340 Ram VII. We have also maintained the 421C since purchase two years ago, and a 1975 414 since the early 1990's.

The 340 and 414 (non-"A") will have the exact same operational costs. The engines, wings, fuel system, avionics, deicing is the same, the only difference is the fuselage and tail. For the most part, they will fit in the same hangar, however the 340 tail is taller. The 414A will similar operating cost, offsetting the simpler fuel system, slightly higher maintenance hydraulic gear system, and potentially pending spar strap installation.

When my customer went looking for an airplane (while leasing the 340), we were looking at 414A's, with the Ram conversion for increased GTOW. We called on, and looked at many airplanes and came to the conclusion that a good airplane was tough to find. Many were high time, damage history, poorly maintained, etc. Then when we started looking at the spar AD (note the hour difference at S/N 200), we decided to start looking at other aircraft. Most had a payload of ~2000#.

The 414's that do not have the Ram conversion (335HP) are a DOG!

We eventually started looking at 421C's and stumbled upon the one we purchased. If it were me making the purchase, and I was going to be flying my (young) family around in it, I'd buy a 421. The primary reason is it's significantly quieter than the 340/414. The fuel cost is only slightly higher (4 GPH we found ROP), the speed is essentially the same, the useful load is the same or more if the Ram mods have not been done on the 340/414, etc. The 421B will have most of the same systems at the 340/414. The 421C has the early Citation wing, is very slightly slower. We find that we can operate the 421C for the same cost as a 340 because we are able to tanker lower cost fuel with the same payload. The 421 is a flying Suburban, and we're continually amazed how much you can stuff in it legally. I'll take the 421C into airports I've never considered taking the 340/414, like a 3500' (no-obstacle) runway near GTOW. The 421's run at a much lower CHT (50-100 degrees!) than the 340/414's. Our payload is 2200#.

We usually run at 65% power, 45GPH 100 ROP, or 36 GPH LOP (still setting this up). True Airspeed is a straight line between 178 KTAS at SL to 226 KTAS at FL250. We can work about 10 KTAS faster from it at 75% power, about 5 GPH higher, but we rarely do that.

If it were me buying, I'd look for the following:
-First run engines, as the GTSIO's seem to have a history of cracks on the second or third overhaul,
-Non-Cessna autopilot. Our Cessna 400B autopilot has been by far the highest maintenance cost on our airplane, and it's support (i.e., some parts) are becoming difficult to find,
-If you look at the 421C, the cost is significantly lower for the early models with the stiff gear. The trailing link gear are nice, but not $100k nice!,
-One (or more) aux fuel tank(s) in the C model, or both in the B model.

I haven't flown the 421B, or the 414A. I have alot of time in the 402C (unpressurized 414A) and found it a joy to fly.

Just my $0.02 worth,
Jason

Every thread about a 421 mentions that you have to treat the geared engines very carefully.

What exactly are the sorts of procedures that must be adopted? Is it simply to avoid large power reductions? As most here seem to discount shock cooling, what is the main reason attributed to the large number of cracked cases?

And how much difference does the trailing link gear really make? Is it for all landings, or just "arrivals"?

Thanks, brad

I just bought a 1980 340, RAM VI. I looked at the Baron, Meridian, Malibu, etc. The twin Cessnas were the only ones that 'work' if I factored the cost of the capital, and the operating cost.

I bought the 340 because I found an excellent one. I know the other airframes are larger, but finding the right airframe is far more important. The added purchase cost of the 414 and 421 is usually substantially higher than the 340, and I'd rather spend that 200k on fuel-- the 340A is a luxurious airplane coming from the A36.

Use a shop familiar with twin Cessnas (Alan Speakmaster also very good- DXR).
I recommend Jerry Temple as a broker- he's probably more knowledgeable than any other twin cessna broker.

Moving up from a Bonanza, it's plenty big for our family of 5 (we are normal sized people)- 3 kids. The potty is no big deal- there are after-market options available.

Get a plane with a solid maintenance pedigree- again this is more important than the model you select.

I am budgeting hourly costs that others have mentioned.


I bought Alex's plane- it is AWESOME. THANKS ALEX G!

Then you bought the best 340 on the market!!! Alex's was the nicest one out there. And it was flown a lot!

Gary - I am so happy to hear that you ended up with my airplane. I was a bit sad thinking that all the effort we put into making this a good airplane would wither away. That airplane was a business tool for me, needing to fly it 3-4 times per week, and as such we maintained it to Part 135 standards - and it never once gave us a reason to delay or cancel a trip.

Let me know if you need any information or have any questions and I will be happy to oblige. I know that airplane inside out. I will PM you some SOPs I developed which I hope you will find useful including power settings and flight profiles.

Happy Flying!

Nice pic of a beautiful family Alex.

Great looking 340 too!

What's your next ride???