No clue on the price tag. I imagine would be around 1.5MM target and increase a little from there.

The only problem I have with the PT6-21 B36TC is that it isn't pressurized. If you get it pressurized its a great airplane, but people don't want to wear oxygen every flight.

Turbine without pressurization is a non starter, IMO.

They climb and descend fast, so ear trouble ensues regardless of oxygen requirements.

They burn a lot of fuel at non oxygen altitudes, and using oxygen is a pain.

They can't get around weather as easily.

They can't fly as high. You really don't want to be at FL250 on oxygen, too dangerous IMO.

Edit: and they can't fly as fast, either!

Mike C.

Mike, I don't always agree 100% with you, but in this case I do! Outside of some specialized applications (Ag, skyjumping, etc), I just don't get non pressurized turbine airplanes...

Robert

No clue on the price tag. I imagine would be around 1.5MM target and increase a little from there.

The only problem I have with the PT6-21 B36TC is that it isn't pressurized. If you get it pressurized its a great airplane, but people don't want to wear oxygen every flight.

Turbine without pressurization is a non starter, IMO.

They climb and descend fast, so ear trouble ensues regardless of oxygen requirements.

They burn a lot of fuel at non oxygen altitudes, and using oxygen is a pain.

They can't get around weather as easily.

They can't fly as high. You really don't want to be at FL250 on oxygen, too dangerous IMO.

Edit: and they can't fly as fast, either!

Mike C.

I don't buy a turbine airplane to fly 5 hours in the thin air at 12K and 220 KTAS. Gives people headaches.

Give me FL250, 5000 ft cabin, and 300 knots, thank you.

Mike C.

I don't buy a turbine airplane to fly 5 hours in the thin air at 12K and 220 KTAS. Gives people headaches.

Give me FL250, 5000 ft cabin, and 300 knots, thank you.

Mike C.

Never heard of the Rocket air boom before so I googled it. Then I stumbled onto the Cougar Baron conversion from RE. I'm sure it'll cost a bejillion dollars, but what a machine that would be!

The Cougar Baron I believe will be somewhere in the $900k range.

The Cougar Baron I believe will be somewhere in the $900k range.

I wonder if Cessna (textron) has considered buying the Extra 500 for their entry into the SETP market. It would certainly fit their high wing line up. (Though I doubt they are overly concerned about that.)

I'm not saying it shouldn't cost that much, but if someone has $200K for a donor airframe, $100K for avionics, $50K for cosmetics, and $900K for the conversion that comes to $1.25 million!!!! What else can you get for that money? What can you get for many AMUs less that will be better? Me thinks a bunch of other airplanes.

Apologies for the thread drift.

18,000 ft is not enough. I rarely fly under FL250.

Any use of oxygen by non aviation aware passengers is problematic due to teaching them how, general reluctance, hygiene, danger from oils/creams, etc.

The Airboom style is dangerous in that you don't know if you are getting the right amount of oxygen without doing pulse ox testing. If the boom moves, you may not notice and then you aren't getting the required oxygen.

The number one oxygen warning system, your brain, is the first thing to go if you lack oxygen. Unlike depressurization, there is no warning light, no change in cabin pressure, no whoosh sound.

Refilling oxygen is a pain and costly, particularly on the road. My home FBO only allows maintenance to do it, and then only during their normal business hours, and they charge a minimum of 1 hour labor to do it. If you use oxygen routinely, it can be a significant adder to operating costs. If you don't, then added fuel burn is an adder to costs.

Pressurization does not increase operating costs very much. It adds quite a lot to general cabin comfort even just considering temperature uniformity. It also makes the plane quieter inside.

Nobody who has owned a pressurized airplane thinks using a cannula is anywhere near the same experience and dread going back to that.

Mike C.

18,000 ft is not enough. I rarely fly under FL250.

Is there something that says that you MUST fly FL250? In the B36T there is very little speed difference from FL180 and FL250.

Any use of oxygen by non aviation aware passengers is problematic due to teaching them how, general reluctance, hygiene, danger from oils/creams, etc.

I've had over 20 different people in my plane and never once did I have to give more than a 30 second overview of how the system worked and NEVER ONCE did I have an issue with people getting sick, complaining of feeling bad. In fact I always asked after landing and everyone loved it.

Oils, creams, hygiene etc.... none of these are an issue with the air boom. NONE.

The Airboom style is dangerous in that you don't know if you are getting the right amount of oxygen without doing pulse ox testing. If the boom moves, you may not notice and then you aren't getting the required oxygen.

Do you have any experience at all with Rocket's setup because from this comment I would say that you obviously don't. Unless you can speak from experience you might want to reserve judgement.

The number one oxygen warning system, your brain, is the first thing to go if you lack oxygen. Unlike depressurization, there is no warning light, no change in cabin pressure, no whoosh sound.

I don't disagree with this, however you don't need a pulse oximeter for every passenger.

Refilling oxygen is a pain and costly, particularly on the road. My home FBO only allows maintenance to do it, and then only during their normal business hours, and they charge a minimum of 1 hour labor to do it. If you use oxygen routinely, it can be a significant adder to operating costs. If you don't, then added fuel burn is an adder to costs.

So you'd rather spend $500k-$1m+ more for a different airplane (let alone 2-3 times the maintenance costs) than the $25-$100 it could cost for oxygen refill? I had my FBO top me off after I arrived back from every trip so it was being filled when I didn't need the plane. Full oxygen systems in those planes would last up to 6-7 hours with 4 people on board.

Also as I pointed out above. Even when you fly the plane at 12k the B36T burns LESS fuel than every other TP out there sans Allison planes.

Pressurization does not increase operating costs very much. It adds quite a lot to general cabin comfort even just considering temperature uniformity. It also makes the plane quieter inside.

So the $500k-$1m+ more for an airplane with pressure doesn't add to cost?

Nobody who has owned a pressurized airplane thinks using a cannula is anywhere near the same experience and dread going back to that.

I don't disagree with this statement. Cannula's especially suck to use. I wouldn't want to go backwards after having a pressurized airplane, however people scaring the hell out of someone that has never had a pressurized plane and want to step up in performance may never look at something like the B36T because they read things from people like you and get the idea it's a horrible experience which isn't true at all.

Mike C.

There is something that I realized that I don't know why I didn't before now. I think a lot of you that complain about headaches from flying at 12k without oxygen or above with I think are misconstruing what you are really experiencing. I think lower oxygen levels play a part however I don't think it's the primary factor.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about:

With my Rocket B36T I could fly all day long at 12k with no oxygen and have little to no issues from it. In my V35 however, if I flew more that 3 hours at 8-10k I would start to get fatigued and and hour or more a headache.

So what I'm getting at is I think what a lot of people are portraying as purely lack of oxygen aren't taking in to account the fatigue factor of a vibrating engine on the front. The TP is so smooth that it takes most of the vibration out and thus a lot of the vibration fatigue factor.

Something to chew on.