BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 11:43

Username Protected wrote:

What is a Sierra Citation's ... if the hydraulic system fails does the gear come down?

No, it is mechanically locked.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 11:44

Username Protected wrote:

You could do it from Australia, I believe its around 1100 nm.

Australia to where is 1100 nm? Certainly not Hawaii!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 13:08

John Atkins really likes his SII. You might contact him. My mechanic has cautioned me on it. Suggests I stay with the II or V. I don't have my numbers on the V here. I'd have to look, but just go on Flightplan.com and use a standard V for the trip and see how it comes out. It does have a bit longer legs than a II, but I can't quantify it right now. If a straight V won't do it, look at the Excel. As you move from a II to a V, single pilot gets more difficult with insurers. Other V models might not be SP approved at all.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 14:38

I agree with others - V is better plane, better performer, more legroom. The right SII is not a bad option but all of these planes are getting old and can be expensive restorations.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 15:10

These threads depress me. I remember when the discussed airplanes were the cat's ass. Now they are old, legacy airplanes. It seems like yesterday, but 20 years goes by fast! The new KLN-90B was an incredible upgrade from LORAN. :sad:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 17:30

Username Protected wrote:

If you want to fly to Hawaii westbound from the U.S. mainland your aircraft will be two crew (unless you have one of the six or so SJ30's out there-then maybe SP). Not including ferry type flights here.

Hmmm.... Unless you really want to make the trip, there must be few people who have a justifiable need to fly to Hawaii from the Continental US.

If you want to go to Hawaii, you are better off buying first class tickets on a good airline for you and your family, have some wine and enjoy the dinner and inflight entertainment....!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 17:45

That idea can be applied to many of our flights.

Aviators want to fly to thier destination and not be flown. Money on first class tickets is lost...millions spent on a 3000 nm mile jet is well invested. :peace:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 20:36

Username Protected wrote:

If you want to fly to Hawaii westbound from the U.S. mainland your aircraft will be two crew (unless you have one of the six or so SJ30's out there-then maybe SP). Not including ferry type flights here.

I know someone who operates an SJ30. None of these fly anywhere without two pilots AND an engineer/mechanic onboard. It's not a real single pilot jet (yet), it's currently a 3 crew member aircraft.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2015, 21:41

I mean the longest leg is 1100 miles going by Australia, Ian Runge did it in his TBM.

Username Protected wrote:

You could do it from Australia, I believe its around 1100 nm.

Australia to where is 1100 nm? Certainly not Hawaii!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Jun 2015, 22:49

Username Protected wrote:

I'd like to think I make good decisions but I can't say I have the most organized decision process. Seems I have to "try on" a decision in my mind for awhile and see how it fits. Eventually that little voice whispers in my ear and tells me if I'm on the right path.

I "tried on" the idea of a Lear 35 over the past few weeks but the little voice just keeps whispering "don't....". Two problems, I don't have any PIC time in a learjet and nobody up here (ridgway, CO) does either. I talked to my insurance guy and he thinks this will be a problem. I know Theo is making this work but I doubt he'll let Ashley move here to be my copilot and I know better than thinking that I can keep up with "the most interesting man in the world". (although it is fun to try!)

My broker and Mark Hangen both think the SII is a sleeper. I'd like to be able to fly OGD-RIC nonstop. On the return flight, the SII likely has to make a fuel stop. The trade-off is that I can fly it SP and I can do my mentor hours with a buddy that lives up here and is type rated in it. So my thoughts are that on most trips, I'l work to find another business meeting on the way back and make the most of the stop (we have customers in every state so it won't be hard).

I flew SIC for maybe 300 hours in a Hawker 725 and it also had a weeping wing. I can't ever remember turning it on (but I've got CRS (can't remember %#$@) so who knows). But either way, I don't have any issue with the weeping wing (but would love to hear comments). I don't know too much more than I can find on the internet. The SII had some aerodynamic enhancements over the CII and better engine performance up high.

I'm wondering how it does hot & high? Does anybody have a book on it? I'd like to know if it will fly out of TEX at 75F and how far it can go?

John,
I planned your OGD-RIC trip on Fltplan.com in the following airplanes. Although this is not certain, I have found FltPlan.com to have surprisingly realistic data. This takes into acct a 20kt tailwind factor for this time of the year.

Ultra- FL450 4:17 Hrs enroute 4515lbs fuel required. 5710lbs full fuel
4:29 hrs enroute 4130 lbs required 5710 lbs full fuel -LRC

CJ4 - FL450. 4:07 Hrs enroute 4142 fuel required 5825 lbs full fuel
No LRC shown on FP.Com

SII -FL400 4:29 Hrs enroute 4283 fuel required 5820 lbs full fuel
No LRC shown on FP.Com

As for hot and high, I would guess CJ4, Ultra, then SII.
YMMV

edited to show Long range cruise LRC.

Robert

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2015, 09:48

Thanks Robert! That's super cool

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2015, 09:57

Btw, there wasn't a profile on FltPlan.com for a Citation V. That's why I used the Ultra. They should be very close.

Robert

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2015, 10:23

Username Protected wrote:

Btw, there wasn't a profile on FltPlan.com for a Citation V. That's why I used the Ultra. They should be very close.

Robert

Yes, I wondered why they didn't have just a 560. I see Excel and Encore both 560s, but not just a straight V :scratch:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2015, 11:25

So I'd assume the SII at LRC would be even better? Any rough estimates?

Looking at what is for sale. A V is about double the money of an equivalent SII. The nicest SII out there has 300 hour engines and is under $1MM. So hull insurance, cost of money and depreciation should all be about 1/2. NM/LB looks about the same. So it seems the question is how much more does it cost to maintain the SII over the V.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2015, 11:55

Username Protected wrote:

So I'd assume the SII at LRC would be even better? Any rough estimates?

Looking at what is for sale. A V is about double the money of an equivalent SII. The nicest SII out there has 300 hour engines and is under $1MM. So hull insurance, cost of money and depreciation should all be about 1/2. NM/LB looks about the same. So it seems the question is how much more does it cost to maintain the SII over the V.

I haven't looked at SIIs or Vs, but I know that a 6000hr Ultra w 0 time engines are in the 1.9-2mm range ask. I would think comparable V would be somewhat less. As for the SII maintenance question, I can't say for sure. We have operated one in the past, and spent some money on the TKS in the form of pump replacement, troubleshooting etc. I don't recall it being insufferable. Those airplanes were made in 85-87 or so, so most will have steam gauges. Some may have Honeywell EFIS 50. The Vs have EFIS 50, and the Ultras Primus 1000. The Vs and Ultra are about 20" longer which gives the aft row more leg room. The climb is much better on the V than SII and even better on the Ultra.

Leaning towards a Citation SII