BeechTalk - BT - Closed on another Twin Cessna (CJ) yesterday

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Apr 2015, 23:31

Username Protected wrote:

Speaking of improvements to the CJ, I've been talking with the Cessna folks about this mod which will be offered exclusively through Cessna hopefully next year. It is currently undergoing EASA certification and the FAA process will follow afterwords (they say it is faster this way as the Europeans make you redo all testing while the FAA is more pragmatic and allows for EASA test results).

http://jetav.com/tamarack-winglet-equip ... ce-record/

These winglets supposedly reduce time to climb and fuel burn which translates into longer range.

The airplane used for Certs and testing is/was sn 12. I owned that one before sn 1. It is leased to them for the purpose of development of the winglets.
Congratulations on your purchase. As soon as you get comfortable in the airplane, you will be amazed as to how much the stress is reduced. I love these airplanes.
Robert

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Apr 2015, 13:41

Congrats
Sounds like Cessna is really supportive on used purchases in the fleet.
Yee haw
Mark

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 10:33

Quote:

Get your RVSM authorization in process so you can get high

Great advice...you don't want to be /G needlessly for 2 months or more.

And, congratulations!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 12:21

G1000 upgrade? I didn't know you could do this

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 12:34

Late to the thread but CONGRATS Alex. I am really enjoying all these turbine threads and discussions. Even though it is not likely to ever be in my wheel house, I still enjoy reading about them and seeing some of you own and fly them. Happy for you!!!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 13:35

Thanks for all the kind words.

Username Protected wrote:

G1000 upgrade? I didn't know you could do this

Here are a few links of interest:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/in-the- ... 67985.html
http://jetav.com/making-the-citationjet ... john-hall/
http://cessna.txtav.com/en/citation-ser ... s-upgrades

Interesting business strategy as it brings the CJ somewhat on par with the M2 for less money - but it gives a cut of the used CJ market to Cessna and Garmin, which is one of the best selling light jets in its class.

By the way, the CJ, CJ1 and CJ1+, and to a certain extent the M2, are all basically the same airframe with the same engines (FJ44-1). During the evolution of the CJ line up, Cessna switched avionics from a Honeywell flight deck in the CJ to a partially integrated Proline in the CJ1 to a full Fadec Proline in the CJ1+. The Proline is heavy with all those CRT screens and clunky boxes - state of the art 15 years ago, but not that hot by today's standards. The weight increase ate up on the useful load, so on the CJ1, Cessna added a 200 lb gross weight increase on paper (what they gave up in UL due to the Proline) and on the CJ1+ added 200 extra pounds of thrust to the engines. However the range and performance is very similar on all 3 variants. The M2 sports a Garmin 3000 (basically a G1000 with touchscreen keypads = less weight/newer technology) + winglets, so it performs better (more range & better climb rate).

A straight CJ with the G1000 will see 120 lbs of weight savings. The upgrade on a CJ1, would provide double that - and it all goes straight to the UL.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 14:59

Alex, did you look at putting in an FMS upgrade into the Honeywell suite, such as the Universal FMS like the UNS-1xw?

I know that would not help shed any weight, but did you look at the capabilities it would give you and was it an available and attractive option?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 15:26

Username Protected wrote:

G1000 upgrade? I didn't know you could do this

Cessna will put a G1000 into a CJ or a G3000 into a CJ2+.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 15:30

Username Protected wrote:

Alex, did you look at putting in an FMS upgrade into the Honeywell suite, such as the Universal FMS like the UNS-1xw?

I know that would not help shed any weight, but did you look at the capabilities it would give you and was it an available and attractive option?

I did and quickly came to the realization that the upgrade didn't buy much other than possibly complying with the 2020 mandate and giving WAAS capability, for a 100+ K price tag (didn't do much negotiating).

In addition to the weight savings, here's what the standard G1000 buys:

- GFC700 autopilot
- GWX68 radar
- ADSB in/out & WAAS
- Substantially enhanced situational awareness
- Dual FMS/AHARS
- TAWS-B
- Synthetic vision
- XM standard
- Improved reliability - this is a big one - 80% of the non-scheduled mx events I found on the logbooks were avionics related on this airplane. The new Garmin stuff just works and the MTBF is light years better. As an avionics shop told me - have you ever priced out a replacement CRT display from the legacy flight deck? You will be shocked.

The only con is the price tag, but the benefits will pay for themselves over time.

Traditional wisdom indicates you will be extremely lucky if you recoup 50-60% of these types of upgrades on resale, but the reduction in workload (especially SP) and corresponding safety was more important to me than resale value. Furthermore, at the price point we were able to get the low time airframe we found, I imagine we will be alright.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 15:40

Username Protected wrote:

The upgrade on a CJ1+, would provide double that - and it all goes straight to the UL.

I don't think Cessna can upgrade the 1+ with FADEC engines with the G1000.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 15:57

Username Protected wrote:

I did and quickly came to the realization that the upgrade didn't buy much other than possibly complying with the 2020 mandate and giving WAAS capability, for a 100+ K price tag (didn't do much negotiating).

In addition to the weight savings, here's what the standard G1000 buys:

- GFC700 autopilot
- GWX68 radar
- ADSB in/out & WAAS
- Substantially enhanced situational awareness
- Dual FMS/AHARS
- TAWS-B
- Synthetic vision
- XM standard
- Improved reliability - this is a big one - 80% of the non-scheduled mx events I found on the logbooks were avionics related on this airplane. The new Garmin stuff just works and the MTBF is light years better. As an avionics shop told me - have you ever priced out a replacement CRT display from the legacy flight deck? You will be shocked.

The only con is the price tag, but the benefits will pay for themselves over time.

Traditional wisdom indicates you will be extremely lucky if you recoup 50-60% of these types of upgrades on resale, but the reduction in workload (especially SP) and corresponding safety was more important to me than resale value. Furthermore, at the price point we were able to get the low time airframe we found, I imagine we will be alright.

You also get glass PFD's and MFD with all engine instruments being replaced with the MFD.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 16:16

Username Protected wrote:

The upgrade on a CJ1+, would provide double that - and it all goes straight to the UL.

I don't think Cessna can upgrade the 1+ with FADEC engines with the G1000.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 16:39

Thanks for the links

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 16:51

A CJ with a G1000 retrofit sounds like a fantastic idea, if the G1000 retrofit is reasonably priced...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2015, 17:05

Username Protected wrote:

A CJ with a G1000 retrofit sounds like a fantastic idea, if the G1000 retrofit is reasonably priced...

I don't know what reasonably is, but I believe the retrofit is around $400k. The Alpine Edition (G3000) in a CJ2+ is real? Have they delivered one yet?