Nope, nope. I don't believe you one bit Craig. Perhaps if you were to camp out here for a month or two and fly me all over in your bird and share every invoice with me, then I could be convinced.

On second thought, I may need a year...

You're basically running it for Baron costs. That's very nice.

Craig,
I'm supposed to get mine back from the avionics shop next week. I can't wait to get my training finished and start flying. I doubt I'll get a 100 hours in three months but I sure hope my costs are similar.

Hahaha, Don, it's enough fun to fly that if I had the time and money I might do that just for grins. I really love this thing. I'm sure Eric is right; the first time I have to replace a 35k windshield I'm going to cry like a little girl, but barring the windshields (and mine are only two years old) I don't see a lot of big parts in my future.

GMP is the cost of the hours used to ante in. One motor had 50 hours; it was 42.75 an hour to play, so just over 2k. The other motor is just about to cycle out, I've got about 40 cycles left; it was 170k to start with a limit of 270k at the overhaul. The program does increase with inflation, but then again, so do the parts from Honeywell. At least I've got a cap on the increases in my contract this way. Also, about three weeks after I got on the program, I saw a note for SBs on the motors-

"Honeywell has recently issued a few service bulletins of interest for MU2 owners and operators. The first one to note is Service Bulletin TPE331-72-2208. This is a Category 2 service bulletin which addresses a substantial improvement to reliability. 72-2208 applies to all second stage compressor impellers P/N 893482-1 thru -5 and 3107056-1,-2 so it will likely affect all MU2 engines currently being operated.

This service bulletin installs a new impeller P/N 3108387-1 or 3107167-1 with better design qualities to prevent possible cracking at the curvic tooth area. Removed impellers that are inspected by Honeywell and found to be serviceable may undergo a rework and re-identification process and be reinstalled with an imposed cycle limit established for the part."

That's going to be 30k a side for anyone coming out of pocket. Not for this white boy. GMP covers it and the plenum SB as well. I already called and checked.

I know lots of people think the engine programs aren't worth it. This one sure is for me.

Sanford, you're gonna love it.

From a reliability, usage and dispatchability standpoint, I'm very ready for a turbine. From a cost standpoint, my wallet just shudders. The MU2 is most compelling from an affordability perspective but those are some big $$ gotchas outside of opex.

The biggest mental block for piston owners moving up to a turbine is that they mistakenly multiply piston maintenance frequency times turbine maintenance cost.

It doesn't work like that.

Turbine maintenance frequency is far less so even though the cost of an event might be higher, it doesn't happen very often.

Moving up to a turbine changes your life. The primary benefit is reliability. You can make plans where you need the airplane to work mechanically and in almost all weather. This is the PRIMARY advantage and translates into mission speed far greater than the cruise speed increase itself. Of course, 300 knots helps a lot, too.

Mike C.

What Mike said.

Think of it like this: you have two types of MX, airframe and powerplant. If you get a stout airframe known for reliable parts, you've only got the motors to worry about. The motors in today's dollars are 270k to OH, but the TBO is...7000 hours! It is very likely you'll go to hots (3500 hours) without any issues other than nozzles (cheap, hundreds, not thousands) and SOAPs (just oil analysis).

The Mits airframe is rugged as hell with no real gotchas; there just aren't a lot of calendar events on these birds either. Also, other than the windows, parts aren't bad when you do need them if you go to the right people. Take your bird to Jet Air in Green Bay for service and they'll save you money on everything because they're good guys and they know where to look for properly priced overhauled parts.

I love the Mits, but the Cheyennes weren't any different in that regard. Pretty much 100 hour to 100 hour with little to no unscheduled MX.

$600/hr is awesome! I'd guess our B200 has been closer to 3X that. It all comes incrementally, 2000/mo hangar, 18K insurance, 20K phase checks, 105GPM/95GPM burn, avionics upgrades, calendar items coming due, hot sections etc.....

In the end, I'd bet my smile isn't any bigger then yours - way to go!

Reading this Thread and what comes to my mind.

1. Exposure- A MX event on a Turbine/Jet vice Recip.. Better have lots of Cash for that Turbine
MX event.. I don't buy it... A Turbine Cost way more than a Baron. Sure at 175-250 hours annually your numbers go way down but that appears to be a disguise.

2. I agree with the reliability of the Turbine BUT But at the exposure of the above. If you have a business as a vehicle to run the cost through that would be great but for personal travel 75 hours annually I have a hard time justifying a Turbine.

Just my Opinion.

But his frown is less when he writes the checks.

Mike C.

You should check how much beech wants for a cowl flap motor for a 58P. Or a windshield if you can get it. Once you're in a turbo, pressurized, piston twin territory, MU2 compares rather favorably. At least you can get the parts. No so much with 58P.

I run the numbers a few weeks ago on Meridian vs Mirage as I am thinking about upgrading my personal toy to pressurized. A used Meridian can now be had for only $300K more than a comparably equipped and due to Jet A vs 100LL price delta, actually is about the same on $/nm basis. No brainer for me.

Do the same numbers on a short body MU2 vs a 58P and you might be surprised. You can built these things a lot more stout once you have 1400hp total available to lift them off the runway.

I had a PBaron. It cost more per hour than my Aerostar. My Aerostar costs more per hour than my Mits. The Mits also handles ice much better, climbs better, engines have MUCH lower MTBF, faster, cruise, etc...than either. The only downside is you can't make it work at 2000' cruise because you won't have any range.

Get an engine program, the worry about the motors goes away.

That is an example of fear from piston unreliability mixed with turbine costs.

If you are truly frightened by some engine event, then get on the engine program which is power by the hour. Craig said it cost him $42.75/hr/engine for the program, at 75 hours/year, that's $6,400 per year. Remember this includes SCHEDULED maintenance, UNSCHEDULED events, HOT SECTION, OVERHAUL, ADs, and SBs. And it includes a bit of profit, too. Think about it.

Nobody would sell you an engine program, that includes ALL of those things, for a Baron for $6400/year to fly 132 hours/year (roughly same miles as MU2 75 hours). That works out to $24/hr/engine, that barely covers overhaul reserve much less any routine maintenance and certainly no "events" along the way.

As for the rest of the airplane, the turbine puts less stress on everything, so that lasts longer, too.

Insurance typically covers FOD damage, too, as mine does.

Mike C.

Bill -- I don't follow your reasoning..

The MU2 is a great plane if your in the market and have the mission for a TP BUT trying to convince me that one can own and operate any TP at the comparison of a Baron is crazy crazy thinking as we attempt to talk ourselves into it..

I'm not sure what a windshield would cost on an MU2 but any Windshield whether a jet, tp or recip is an expensive event, mainly due to labor. I would compare a total engine failure event and ask yourself if you could swallow this ? This would be more my point !! More like a broken finger nail to breaking your back...... Then I'd ask myself: is my mission so important that I need to get to my destination 40 minutes earlier ? or Is my mission important enough to expose myself to financial burden of an engine purchase? For me the answer is NO...
I tend to make decision based on worse case scenerios rather than smelling the roses..

Owning a TP requires eyes wide open approach....

Nope.

Tim, ever own a turbo prop? This is my third, I'm telling you, what you're saying isn't true. I've had a few piston twins as well; in fact, I had what you're currently driving. The capex is more to get involved with a Mits or Commander than a PBaron or an A* because no one wants a piston twin anymore; you can't barely give the things away, and that's crazy because some of them are really good. The opex is just not that different, especially if you have an engine program.