banner
banner

07 Jun 2025, 02:00 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Stevens Aerospace (Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 12:02 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8674
Post Likes: +9187
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Mark,

I agree with you and in fact we consider this frequently. I have agencies that are 5-8 hour drives (each way) that can be reached by plane in an hour or two. To go there takes 2 to 3 days with driving whereas we can send someone out and back the same day by airplane. When you consider the time cost, not to mention hotel, per diem, lost productivity and alternate transportation the airplane including contract pilot is cheaper.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 12:06 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13080
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
Jason,

The company I now fly for said the same thing and upgraded from a 2006 CJ3 to 2014 XLS+ . They bypassed the Encore as wasn't a big improvement in Cabin /performance for the price.

Nigel

But what if you're just buying your first jet? Is there a reason to choose and Encore over a CJ3? Why would I pick one over the other? The CJ3 costs more to acquire I think.

CJ4 is out. I think it costs a lot more to run than a CJ3 but not much more benefit. Even the CJ sales guys tell me this.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 12:26 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7095
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
In using an aircraft as a business tool, I spent a little time arguing with my accountant that 'my time' has a value when compared to commercial.

I was told that I can only associate the cost of a 'commercial ticket' as an expense and not the cost of the aircraft or my time. The other interesting part was that if I take my family (which I always do) I have to deduct that against their 'commercial tickets' value.

Gonna get a turbo prop anyways, but the expense rules have me seriously scratching my head :scratch:


Michael:

Don't confuse tax accounting with cost accounting. It sounds like you were discussing what you could deduct for your business flights under IRS rules vs. determining cost per hour for making a choice of which aircraft to acquire. Two totally different issues.


:-) Not me!!

I believe that if you are making a financial decision then both have to be taken into account. Cost accounting has to take into account the tax benefits. Now for determining which aircraft, it's obvious that your 310 is costing me as much as my Baron, hence the need for additional speed and capabilities. I know Tony's doing the same too.

That being said for me the 'cost accounting' makes incredible sense because of the value of my time. I live in South Florida which for travelling the whole US is actually a pretty out of the way spot.

Attached the regs as I know for Jesse. Charter has the same issues.

Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 12:44 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 01/11/08
Posts: 2128
Post Likes: +718
Location: Gaithersburg , MD (KGAI)
Aircraft: 1980 Baron 55
I now have two Aviation CPA's and Attorney's working with me.

Our business has quadrupled in the last six months, and we are on pace to do it again this year.

I offer a FREE 30-60 minute consultation to discuss your particular situation and circumstances, in total confidence, with one of our team.

It is a rarity that we cannot save and/or assist a client with their airplane ownership.

If you would like to setup a meeting, to discuss your individual situation, just drop me a PM.

Rick Galvin


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 12:52 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 18549
Post Likes: +28584
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
Username Protected wrote:
Jason,

The company I now fly for said the same thing and upgraded from a 2006 CJ3 to 2014 XLS+ . They bypassed the Encore as wasn't a big improvement in Cabin /performance for the price.

The Director flight ops looked at the CJ4 and surmises the the 4 will most likely compete against the Encores for sale as the difference in price and performance isn't that much

Don't know why the difference really ? Cessna marketing? RD costs for the Encore have to be lower than the CJ line when spread across the total production of the 500 series / type cert.

Nigel

Does the Encore have the old engines? I'm scheduled to fly it but haven't.

_________________
Dave Siciliano, ATP


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 12:55 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 18549
Post Likes: +28584
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
Hope that SII works out for you Mark. Looking forward to seeing it!

_________________
Dave Siciliano, ATP


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 12:59 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/18/13
Posts: 1152
Post Likes: +769
Aircraft: 737
Username Protected wrote:
I now have two Aviation CPA's and Attorney's working with me.

Our business has quadrupled in the last six months, and we are on pace to do it again this year.

I offer a FREE 30-60 minute consultation to discuss your particular situation and circumstances, in total confidence, with one of our team.

It is a rarity that we cannot save and/or assist a client with their airplane ownership.

If you would like to setup a meeting, to discuss your individual situation, just drop me a PM.

Rick Galvin


Yup. Taking good care of me for my second year.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 13:07 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 18549
Post Likes: +28584
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
As far as supply, the normal inventory that's been listed for awhile probably isn't what one wants. Many have high engine times and old avionics. You really don't want to overhaul these engines and flying past TBO puts one in a poor position unless on an approved extension program. I'm actually leaning toward dry leasing for several reasons.

_________________
Dave Siciliano, ATP


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 13:19 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8674
Post Likes: +9187
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
As far as supply, the normal inventory that's been listed for awhile probably isn't what one wants. Many have high engine times and old avionics. You really don't want to overhaul these engines and flying past TBO puts one in a poor position unless on an approved extension program. I'm actually leaning toward dry leasing for several reasons.


Dave,

You've mentioned dry leasing a number of times. I don't know anything about how it works. How do the economics work?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 13:48 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/10/10
Posts: 676
Post Likes: +490
Aircraft: C441 Conquest II
Mark,

Great video. It's easy to get the jet bug (I'm starting to feel it myself). Will be in your neck of the woods on Tuesday (flying in commercial Monday night) to pick up my MU-2 from Executive Aircraft Maintenance (want to get the plane out of there before the Super Bowl traffic plan locks things down... Shoot me a PM if you'd like to get together. I'll likely be at SDL a good chunk of Tuesday...

Dave


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 14:05 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/08/11
Posts: 399
Post Likes: +53
Location: Valentine,NE
Aircraft: PC12NG
I get the jet fever quite regularly myself. But I always end up deciding that the Pilatus is the best option for me.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 14:32 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/19/09
Posts: 382
Post Likes: +166
Location: Montego Bay, Jamaica W.I. (MKJS)
Aircraft: Baron B55/Cessna 140
Dave,

The Encore has PW535A engines and improved trailing-link landing gear with Fadec. So slightly better rannge and cruise numbers. As with most Cessna models incremental improvements in model years and the price your willing to pay for them vary.

That said I would for the same price go for a higher time newer Encore off the NetJet /Citation Shares fleet over a lower time single owner V. If I'm flying more than 400 hrs a year.

Jason,

Plenty of older V/ Encores can be had for the price of a CJ3 for a first jet the only really benefit I see of the CJ line to you in the Single pilot option which would work for you.
Think there is only 3-5 Vs with single pilot authorizations.

Nigel


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 14:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/13/10
Posts: 20210
Post Likes: +24876
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
I've never had "jet fever."

Apparently, it's a virus that is not contagious to those in my income range... :D

_________________
Arlen
Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
- Mars Bonfire


Last edited on 24 Jan 2015, 18:40, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 15:15 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13470
Post Likes: +7554
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
I'm not buying a jet until I can bank the purchase and the OPx for life. Going backwards from a jet would be tough. I'm enjoying my ignorance :)

_________________
Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients
My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flew the Citation II today SDL to TEX - VID
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 15:22 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 10790
Post Likes: +6891
Location: Cambridge, MA (KLWM)
Aircraft: 1997 A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
In using an aircraft as a business tool, I spent a little time arguing with my accountant that 'my time' has a value when compared to commercial.

I was told that I can only associate the cost of a 'commercial ticket' as an expense and not the cost of the aircraft or my time. The other interesting part was that if I take my family (which I always do) I have to deduct that against their 'commercial tickets' value.
Your accountant may be confusing the entertainment use taxation rules (which is what you posted) as opposed to the general business expense deductibility question, which requires that the expense be incurred in the course of carrying out your trade and that it be ordinary and necessary.

There's nothing in the tax code to suggest that you need to use the lowest cost means of travel. Surely, riding a bicycle would be cheaper than driving, yet you're allowed to drive. Driving is often cheaper than commercial flying, yet you can fly commercial...


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next



B-Kool (Top/Bottom Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.wilco-85x100.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.rnp.85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.b-kool-85x50.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.
.aerox_85x100.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.Elite-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.midwest2.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.