20 Jan 2026, 23:03 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 06 Feb 2017, 21:10 |
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Joined: 08/24/13 Posts: 10428 Post Likes: +5008 Company: Aviation Tools / CCX Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
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Username Protected wrote: Talked with the mechanic that dealt with the trim issue. Both the electric clutch and the slip clutch were bad. The electric clutch was not releasing. The travel in degrees is supposed to be 15 degrees nose down and 17 degrees nose up. It was actually measures as 5 deg nose down and 25 degree nose up. Hence the takeoff trim range on the trim wheel was not even close to indicating correctly. The slip clutch was supposed to slip at 40 inch lbs but wasn't slipping when the mechanic used his entire body weight.
They replaced both clutches.
The clutches are in the box labeled #10 in this photo. Right, which means the cable also slipped on the trim wheel in the cockpit, which caused the split in trim range. I don't remember on the 560's, is there a preflight check of the slip clutch?
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 06 Feb 2017, 21:47 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14731 Post Likes: +12505 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: I don't remember on the 560's, is there a preflight check of the slip clutch? No. But a buddy of mine flies an Ultra. What he does is mark where the trim tab indicator should be when it's neutral as observed from looking at the tail during the walk around. If the indicator inside isn't aligned with that mark when the tab is neutral they know they have an issue (misalignment) which is an indication that the slip clutch may have an issue. Note to self.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 06 Feb 2017, 21:54 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14731 Post Likes: +12505 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Mark,
You need more cameras for your next flight with the new co-pilot. Maybe that will calm her down...
Peace bro, Don She is strictly a passenger. I like the idea of using liquor to relax her but then the cameras might not meet the standards of BT etiquette! I spent Saturday at the 16th with her during the Phoenix Open. Actually pretty interesting. No matter where she goes all eyes in the place are on her. ( probably thinking why is she with that guy?). Clearly she is an expert at the attention but I found it a tad creepy. BWTFDIK?
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_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 06 Feb 2017, 22:19 |
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Joined: 08/24/13 Posts: 10428 Post Likes: +5008 Company: Aviation Tools / CCX Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
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Username Protected wrote: I don't remember on the 560's, is there a preflight check of the slip clutch? No. But a buddy of mine flies an Ultra. What he does is mark where the trim tab indicator should be when it's neutral as observed from looking at the tail during the walk around. If the indicator inside isn't aligned with that mark when the tab is neutral they know they have an issue (misalignment) which is an indication that the slip clutch may have an issue. Note to self.
I think the external trim tab check is part of the preflight inspection in the Operating Manual. I don't see a check of the slip clutch in the manual, so I guess it only gets checked during maint. Surprising.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 17:48 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14731 Post Likes: +12505 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Here is a little lesson I am learning that people might find helpful. I have leases on three Citations. They are all 550's but each is a little different weight and balance wise (among other things). I use flight performance software to do weight and balance, calculate Vspeeds , TORA, TODA, ASDA,LD etc. I submitted all three aircraft to the company for inclusion in my account and prompity got charged accordingly. $375 per month ($125 per aircraft). Holy cow that's a lot of cash. They are treating the situation like all three aircraft are flying simulataneously. Called and talked to accounting and get the ole "ijwh" treatment. After a little presistance over two days I get a co-founder on the phone. I carefully explain that three airplanes really equals one in my case. Single pilot. Only one flies for me at a time. Haven't learned how to fly two at once etc. Light goes on! "Oh that's unusual. Don't think we have encountered that before"'. Good for him. He got it. I expect a positive resolution.
I have seen the same thing from airport authorities. E.g. Use of office fuel farm. The idea three airplanes can make up or act like one airplane is a bit foreign. So far people are getting it. Fingers crossed
Btw cost per plane varies widely. $1250 to $600 an hour. Just bought 50 hours of use for a WAAS equipped CE550 for $600/hr. Deals are out there.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 19:38 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14731 Post Likes: +12505 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: I'm sneaking up on my 500hrs of turbine time(requirement for SPW). Probably won't make it by next month when I go to recurrent. So maybe next year I'll try and get my SPW. But a deal like $600/hr dry in a CII would be an awefully fun way to transport the family around for a year! Use JetfuelX and you will have an all in cost of less than $1,000 an hour at 360kts carrying up to 10 people. Better than a poke in the eye!
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 19:46 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4438 Post Likes: +3306
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Mark, do you have to go through the RVSM process for each aircraft you lease? What is the typical time and cost to get it done? That hourly fee includes all mx?
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 19:53 |
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Joined: 12/09/10 Posts: 3634 Post Likes: +865 Location: KPAN
Aircraft: PA12
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Username Protected wrote: Use JetfuelX and you will have an all in cost of less than $1,000 an hour at 360kts carrying up to 10 people. Better than a poke in the eye! Exactly! Haul twice the people twice as fast for 4 times the cost with zero overhead! Where do I sign up?
_________________ 520 M35, 7ECA, CL65, CE550, E170/190, B737 5/19 737 5/18 E170/190 8/17 CL65 3/17 CE500
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 19:54 |
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Joined: 08/08/12 Posts: 1445 Post Likes: +940
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I can speak to the RVSM as I recently went through the process.
Each operator has to get a serial number specific RVSM manual. If there are 2 leases on an airplane, there will need to be 2 RVSM manuals.
For me, the cost was minimal. The airplane was already approved and I wrote the manual myself using the previous operator's manual as a reference. There is also a "job aid" on the FAA website to help. Each FSDO is different. I think I had my LOA in 3 weeks.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 20:45 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14731 Post Likes: +12505 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Mark, do you have to go through the RVSM process for each aircraft you lease? What is the typical time and cost to get it done? That hourly fee includes all mx? Hourly fee includes everything but fuel and airport fees. The RVSM process varies widely. I used a third party that took six months and $2k. Another one took 2 months and $500. The third one is still in process. Looks like Thomas A had a very efficient experience. Of course pilot training - $10k a year is a separate fee.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 21:10 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4438 Post Likes: +3306
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Mark, are these aircraft leased to other operators at the same time as to you so that you have to schedule or are they all yours? What kind of calendar allotment is allowed for the 50 hours to be used up in? Sounds like a very good deal.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 21:48 |
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Joined: 08/08/12 Posts: 1445 Post Likes: +940
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Username Protected wrote: ... Just bought 50 hours of use for a WAAS equipped CE550 for $600/hr. Deals are out there. Smokin' deal!
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 10 Feb 2017, 21:54 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14731 Post Likes: +12505 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Mark, are these aircraft leased to other operators at the same time as to you so that you have to schedule or are they all yours? What kind of calendar allotment is allowed for the 50 hours to be used up in? Sounds like a very good deal. Non exclusive. I lease three so there is always one available. No time limit on using the 50 hours was discussed. But as much as I fly it won't be a problem
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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