The Epic E1000 has a spec sheet with a FL340 "Ceiling". Does this mean it is "planned" to be certified to that altitude? It must have RVSM so if the SF-50 gets RVSM can they bump up the ceiling to FL340? What about the arguments of "new" SE not being able to go above FL280 unless they "grand father clause" the certification of earlier designs for pressurization issues? Eclipses fly at that altitude "most" of the time & go over that if they want to top weather, etc. The SFC for the Williams engine would change quite a lot @ FL340. It be a market winner if they can get to those FL´s..."but" maybe they have factored the cost of RVSM certification and the business model makes sense at their target price?

Not unless it's "for real". If you haven't REALLY lost one in IMC and made it out alive you have not been initiated.

"Training in the airplane" is only 25% of the equation. Some folks crack under pressure. That's another 25%. Situational awareness is another 25%. Some folks have it, some don't. Then there's "Luck" which accounts for the last 25%.

He wasn't a "pro pilot".

He was a CEO of a corporation, and owner of the airplane, which means being an underpaid "pro pilot" isn't indicated.

Nothing about this crash relates to engine count, so a complete red herring to mention it here.

Mike C.

That's the only way that can be interpreted. There is no utility for a plane capable of FL340 that can't legally fly there.

My expectation is that they looked at the engine technical performance and set altitude to that so they could get impressive speed, fuel flows, and range. I would not interpret this to mean they evaluated and solved all the certification requirements to do that.


Only if they solve the certification requirements to do that. To Cirrus's credit, they have not promised higher than FL280, which is already a stretch on the certification rules.


New planes have to meet new certification basis. Older airplanes had certification basis that predate the rule change.


High 30s is not uncommon, 370, 380 for example. Few airlines operate above FL390, so FL400, FL410 are mostly biz jets and Eclipse go there some times, though notably not on very hot days.


If you can go higher, then the penalty for being a single is less.


RVSM is not a significant cost adder for the engineering nor the production cost. The Garmin avionics already support it.

I can only surmise the FL280 ceiling goal is how far Cirrus thinks they can push the FL250 limits with some sort of ELOS or other argument. It also helps to use a higher ceiling for marketing purposes (fuel flows that much less, speed that much higher, range that much better). If limited to FL250, expect about a 10% hit to everything.

Mike C.

Then why do twins crash?

You are initiated if you've survived those situations. There's more to it than training though. You don't learn "not to spaz" while sitting next to CFI. It's something you learn in other parts of your life. You are NOT a spaz.

I do sim training every year too. It's not REAL and I know it's not real when I'm sitting there. There's no consequence. I crush it in the sim. It's easy.

He wasn't a "pro pilot".

He was a CEO of a corporation, and owner of the airplane, which means being an underpaid "pro pilot" isn't indicated.

Nothing about this crash relates to engine count, so a complete red herring to mention it here.

Mike C.

Do you have access to Cirrus' manufacturing costs data, or is it just speculation?

Then why do twins crash?

You are initiated if you've survived those situations. There's more to it than training though. You don't learn "not to spaz" while sitting next to CFI. It's something you learn in other parts of your life. You are NOT a spaz.

I do sim training every year too. It's not REAL and I know it's not real when I'm sitting there. There's no consequence. I crush it in the sim. It's easy.

Yeah. That's what I said. You're agreeing with me?

Its hard to tell who has more experience than yourself on a forum but it easy to see who has less. Maybe its because you were that guy once upon a time.

I'm not claiming to have experience. I've never been "initiated". I've never had a failure in low IMC conditions for real. I've never gotten myself in trouble. I've never been a spaz in other parts of my life and I do well in the sim but who knows?

The SF50 doesn't need to be better than a CJ2+, it needs to be better than a Meridian. That is where the Cirrus customers with money leak to and Cirrus wants to capture that upgrade market.

Agreed.