10 Dec 2025, 12:37 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low Posted: 11 Feb 2022, 19:52 |
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Joined: 07/22/14 Posts: 10405 Post Likes: +21133 Company: Mountain Airframe LLC Location: Mena, Arkansas
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Username Protected wrote: …………snip……….I assume sooner than later. Always happens quicker than expected………. Yes  It’s almost always later than we think, at least for us mere mortals.
_________________ If a diligent man puts his energy into the exclusive effort, a molehill can be made into a mountain
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Feb 2022, 01:37 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1721 Post Likes: +1776 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: So, on the contrary, let's punish the crime committed and the criminals. But let's not go so far as to say that because some use a getaway car in their crimes that no one should be allowed a car.
I believe that finding equity in dealing with misbehavior, which perhaps we can agree on is essentially the violation of societal norms, is a more appropriate and likely workable solution to the problems you and I are both concerned about, than punishing the innocent. Let me say in closing that I believe I've struck a nerve of frustration and possibly anger with the expression of my views. I certainly don't intend to give offense but I can't not express my opinion, which is the free right of all of us, merely to avoid another's frustration that I don't share their weltanschauung. I've tried to be polite and if I've given real or imagined offense to anyone I regret that. I do think that this issue is important and that how it is resolved ultimately will have a great deal to do with how the future of our country turns out. I am enjoying the discussion and am not offended or upset in any way. I also don't think that I am twisting your words or using rhetorical tricks to do so. I am passionate about this stuff because I have worked my a$$ off for my wealth and it infuriates me to watch people grow their wealth via corruption vs hard work. My sole desire is to have a level playing field and we are nowhere close to that today. I never once proposed to "punish the innocent." However, the fundamental flaw in your position is that the ultra-wealthy, along with corporations, are able to use their wealth via political corruption to have laws and regulations created or modified that make their advantages legal. So even if we actually go after those who are breaking the law (which we are not doing at all), the ones that are not actually breaking the law are still taking advantage of these kinds of loopholes that regular people are unable to use. History shows that large amounts of wealth inequality are not good for society. Eventually the torches and pitchforks come out. I will ask you again. Does it make sense that Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate on his earnings than his secretary? Does it make sense that Private Equity bankers pay a lower tax rate on their earnings than the people who work at the companies they own? As I said above, my desire is to radically simplify all of this stuff and return to a more pure form of economy. There must be a level playing field. To keep harping on the tax code, slash that thing. You earn a dollar, you pay X%, no matter how it was earned. The government must get out of the business of picking winners and losers, but they do that every day today. Then by all means we will see who the real wealth creators are and they will earn their wealth the old fashioned way, by having good ideas and working hard.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Feb 2022, 05:43 |
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Joined: 07/30/20 Posts: 115 Post Likes: +72 Location: Findlay, Ohio
Aircraft: 1981 501SP
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Aircraft inventory may rise slightly but they will continue to hold their value despite the high cost of fuel. My guess is that there will just be fewer hours placed on these aircraft over the next few years and aircraft ownership will be one way to hedge inflation.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Feb 2022, 09:08 |
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Joined: 03/01/14 Posts: 2300 Post Likes: +2074 Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
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An old P210, in good shape, will bring in close to 300k. I’m bringing one back with its new owner today.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Feb 2022, 10:13 |
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Joined: 03/13/13 Posts: 1819 Post Likes: +6506 Location: Conroe, TX
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Username Protected wrote: I will ask you again. Does it make sense that Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate on his earnings than his secretary? Does it make sense that Private Equity bankers pay a lower tax rate on their earnings than the people who work at the companies they own?. Does to me. I never could understand how it ought to cost anyone more than it does anyone else to live here. I struggle with the idea that I pay tax annually on my property, or that I have zero financial privacy. It’s cool that you ignore fact that Buffet pays thousands of times as much in taxes as his secretary, or can know that and consider that he isn’t pulling his freight. I like how you conflate wages (low risk, high certainty of getting paid) and capital gains (high risk, low certainty of getting paid) into “earnings”. I wonder if it’s possible that taxing all “earnings” the same would reduce investment and lead to a weaker economy and more unemployment and so on. It’s probably simple-minded of me to think that raising the risk/return ratio of capital investing would affect investor behavior though, prolly oughta leave that to the smart guys such a great job running things now.
_________________ Strive for a ruthless understanding of reality.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Feb 2022, 11:53 |
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Joined: 06/02/10 Posts: 7722 Post Likes: +5111 Company: Inscrutable Fasteners, LLC Location: West Palm Beach - F45
Aircraft: Planeless
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Username Protected wrote: I haven't paid much attention to "for sale" since buying the Baron. Today I pulled up TAP and Controller to find the same twins I pursued months ago are still there. The one where the broker would not let me fly in the airplane until I signed a contract is most rewarding. Someone I know called last night asking to let him me the 180. There is a price I suppose. Guess we will see how the single market is doing. Jg A buddy of mine is getting unsolicited calls about his airplane offering stupid amounts of money. I was at the strip mall down the street the other day in my little BMW. It's really nothing that special, but somewhere along the way it apparently became a collectable (I never noticed). So I'm walking back to the car with my pizza to find some guy walking around it. I'm like "hmmm, what's up with this?" Anyway, I walk up and toss my pizza in the passenger seat and this guy offers twice what I thought it was worth on the spot and gives me his card. Its a stupid amount of money for a little car. The world has gone plain loco. Best, Rich
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Feb 2022, 12:23 |
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Joined: 06/04/18 Posts: 116 Post Likes: +88 Company: Commander, 79th FS Location: Sumter, SC
Aircraft: F-16, P210 TN550
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Username Protected wrote: An old P210, in good shape, will bring in close to 300k. I’m bringing one back with its new owner today. Only 4x P210s on Controller right now. I’d be wise to sell mine right now but I can’t bring myself to do it.
_________________ CSEL, CMEL, CFII USAF F-16 Evaluator/WIC Instructor
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 13 Feb 2022, 11:51 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8734 Post Likes: +9463 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Username Protected wrote: So, on the contrary, let's punish the crime committed and the criminals. But let's not go so far as to say that because some use a getaway car in their crimes that no one should be allowed a car.
I believe that finding equity in dealing with misbehavior, which perhaps we can agree on is essentially the violation of societal norms, is a more appropriate and likely workable solution to the problems you and I are both concerned about, than punishing the innocent. Let me say in closing that I believe I've struck a nerve of frustration and possibly anger with the expression of my views. I certainly don't intend to give offense but I can't not express my opinion, which is the free right of all of us, merely to avoid another's frustration that I don't share their weltanschauung. I've tried to be polite and if I've given real or imagined offense to anyone I regret that. I do think that this issue is important and that how it is resolved ultimately will have a great deal to do with how the future of our country turns out. I am enjoying the discussion and am not offended or upset in any way. I also don't think that I am twisting your words or using rhetorical tricks to do so. I am passionate about this stuff because I have worked my a$$ off for my wealth and it infuriates me to watch people grow their wealth via corruption vs hard work. My sole desire is to have a level playing field and we are nowhere close to that today. I never once proposed to "punish the innocent." However, the fundamental flaw in your position is that the ultra-wealthy, along with corporations, are able to use their wealth via political corruption to have laws and regulations created or modified that make their advantages legal. So even if we actually go after those who are breaking the law (which we are not doing at all), the ones that are not actually breaking the law are still taking advantage of these kinds of loopholes that regular people are unable to use. History shows that large amounts of wealth inequality are not good for society. Eventually the torches and pitchforks come out. I will ask you again. Does it make sense that Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate on his earnings than his secretary? Does it make sense that Private Equity bankers pay a lower tax rate on their earnings than the people who work at the companies they own? As I said above, my desire is to radically simplify all of this stuff and return to a more pure form of economy. There must be a level playing field. To keep harping on the tax code, slash that thing. You earn a dollar, you pay X%, no matter how it was earned. The government must get out of the business of picking winners and losers, but they do that every day today. Then by all means we will see who the real wealth creators are and they will earn their wealth the old fashioned way, by having good ideas and working hard.
I can't give a better answer to your question about Buffet than Don did. I agree with him wholeheartedly.
I agree with you on tax reduction and simplification to this degree: I am opposed to government manipulation of behavior (which is what almost all tax deductions, loopholes, etc. are) however I don't think that will ever stop. For one thing the real estate market would be devastated, likely never recover and would certainly do more to promote inequality than anything you've suggested.
Where I do additionally disagree with you is on how you see "earned". You view any dollar that is an increase to you as earned. I do not. My investments generate income based on capital I've already accumulated after that capital has already been taxed. It is true that earned income diminishes as a per cent of total new resources the larger one's wealth becomes. That should serve as spur to savings and investment not as a penalty for it. If we began to tax investment income as ordinary income I predict that you would see massive capital flight from this country and the economic penalties I pointed out in one of my earlier posts would soon follow.
One of underpinnings of arguments like yours are what constitutes "fairness". Many argue that the rich don't now, but should "pay their fair share" in income taxes. This is absurd on it's face. In the first place they pay more income taxes on average than the "not rich", in the second more than half the working population pay no income taxes at all and it can't be fair that everyone consumes many resource equally (military protection, traffic laws, etc.) and yet pays for them disproportionately. "Fairness" is always in the eye of the beholder, or the mind of the ridiculously guilt ridden. I'm certainly not the latter. When everyone is paying something perhaps then it would make sense to look at whether or not we need to adjust rates or lower benefits. I suspect that will never happen either so I am forced to attempt to use the rules to avoid as much confiscation as possible and to resist changes that will increase the rate of confiscation.
I don't think we need to change anything to see who the "real wealth creators" are. We see them now. All the prominent ones, and an overwhelming majority of the rest, made it themselves.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 13 Feb 2022, 12:24 |
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Joined: 02/10/12 Posts: 6712 Post Likes: +8238 Company: Minister of Pith Location: Florida
Aircraft: Piper PA28/140
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Username Protected wrote: Investing in children sounds great. Hard to be against it, like being against air or water, or mother's milk.
But...education is not education is not education. The US already spends more than anyone else on education, per student*. For all that, we finish below most industrial nations in most subjects. Our educational system has undergone a massive shift in its underlying premise and purpose in the last 100+ years, and in that time we have witnessed reduced performance. I perceive we have gone from trying to produce strong independent thinkers of maximized intellectual capability to rolling out indoctrinated drones.
And it's working. A cynical man might believe there is a political purpose here.
*IIRC one little country somewhere spends more than we do. Sort of the exception that proves the rule. Parents should have no say in what and how their children are taught.
_________________ "No comment until the time limit is up."
Last edited on 13 Feb 2022, 13:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 13 Feb 2022, 12:34 |
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Joined: 02/10/12 Posts: 6712 Post Likes: +8238 Company: Minister of Pith Location: Florida
Aircraft: Piper PA28/140
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Username Protected wrote: I was at the strip mall down the street the other day in my little BMW. It's really nothing that special, but somewhere along the way it apparently became a collectable (I never noticed). So I'm walking back to the car with my pizza to find some guy walking around it. I'm like "hmmm, what's up with this?" Anyway, I walk up and toss my pizza in the passenger seat and this guy offers twice what I thought it was worth on the spot and gives me his card. Its a stupid amount of money for a little car.
If he is willing to pay twice, tell him you'll take 3x.
_________________ "No comment until the time limit is up."
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 13 Feb 2022, 15:06 |
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Joined: 12/30/15 Posts: 797 Post Likes: +841 Location: NH; KLEB
Aircraft: M2, erstwhile G58
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Username Protected wrote: I will ask you again. Does it make sense that Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate on his earnings than his secretary? Does it make sense that Private Equity bankers pay a lower tax rate on their earnings than the people who work at the companies they own?. Does to me. I never could understand how it ought to cost anyone more than it does anyone else to live here. I struggle with the idea that I pay tax annually on my property, or that I have zero financial privacy. It’s cool that you ignore fact that Buffet pays thousands of times as much in taxes as his secretary, or can know that and consider that he isn’t pulling his freight. I like how you conflate wages (low risk, high certainty of getting paid) and capital gains (high risk, low certainty of getting paid) into “earnings”. I wonder if it’s possible that taxing all “earnings” the same would reduce investment and lead to a weaker economy and more unemployment and so on. It’s probably simple-minded of me to think that raising the risk/return ratio of capital investing would affect investor behavior though, prolly oughta leave that to the smart guys such a great job running things now.
The issue to which Mr. Leach refers is the disparate treatment of income under our tax code. Capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than ordinary income. Pure garbage. Income is income and should be taxed at the same rate, independent of it source. The argument that taxing capital gains at the same rate as ordinary income will somehow reduce investment is also nonsense. Capital has to be put to work. It will not sit idle. In terms or risk/reward, the tax code has nothing to do with whether or not to leave cash in the mattress or whether to invest it. Risk/reward profiles are independent of the tax code and have everything to do with where it will be invested, not whether. Capital gains tax rates have very little do to with where or how one invests money.
The more serious issue is taxing labor at higher rate than capital. Time is our only non-renewable resource. Investors can always make more money. Time (read labor), once spent, is gone forever.
I am a capitalist. I believe in markets. But I am also an equal opportunity basher. The argument that capital deserves a more favorable tax rate than labor is the worst sort of right-wing sophistry (I am also a right winger). Income should be taxed at the same rates independent of its source. Any other approach is nonsense. The current approach that taxes labor at a higher rate than capital is unconscionable.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 13 Feb 2022, 17:07 |
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Joined: 03/13/13 Posts: 1819 Post Likes: +6506 Location: Conroe, TX
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Username Protected wrote: I am a capitalist. I believe in markets. But I am also an equal opportunity basher. The argument that capital deserves a more favorable tax rate than labor is the worst sort of right-wing sophistry (I am also a right winger). Income should be taxed at the same rates independent of its source. Any other approach is nonsense. The current approach that taxes labor at a higher rate than capital is unconscionable. It is not a law of the universe that income must be taxed. We got along for more than 130 years without an income tax. Corporate taxes are stupid, who do we think pays them? Just another way to fleece WTP while whinging about fat cats. A nice simple federal sales tax would do the trick, but would also make it plain just how heavily taxed we are. Increasing awareness of how much we pay for our government would not bode well for their collective future, both federal employees and elected officials. It does seem to be very nearly a law of the universe that any increasing tax on capital would reduce investment in enterprise. In addition to tilting the risk/benefit calculus away from investing, taxing capital moves money into the (incredibly efficient, wise, evenhanded and sober) control of the legislature, and anyone who thinks that is a good idea is beyond help. Reducing enterprise is the same thing as reducing the opportunity for labor to labor, and move some of that capital into their own pocket. The fundamental thing underlying all of this is the magic of the labor and imagination people exerted correctly onto things mined or grown to make stuff that is more valuable than it was before. Letting people do this without the close supervision of the ruling class is a big part of the magic of America. The more money we aim at those outside of the process (like government), the more difficult it becomes, and the less often the magic of wealth creation occurs, and the harder life is for WTP.
_________________ Strive for a ruthless understanding of reality.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 13 Feb 2022, 17:58 |
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Joined: 12/30/15 Posts: 797 Post Likes: +841 Location: NH; KLEB
Aircraft: M2, erstwhile G58
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Username Protected wrote: I am a capitalist. I believe in markets. But I am also an equal opportunity basher. The argument that capital deserves a more favorable tax rate than labor is the worst sort of right-wing sophistry (I am also a right winger). Income should be taxed at the same rates independent of its source. Any other approach is nonsense. The current approach that taxes labor at a higher rate than capital is unconscionable. It is not a law of the universe that income must be taxed. We got along for more than 130 years without an income tax. Corporate taxes are stupid, who do we think pays them? Just another way to fleece WTP while whinging about fat cats. A nice simple federal sales tax would do the trick, but would also make it plain just how heavily taxed we are. Increasing awareness of how much we pay for our government would not bode well for their collective future, both federal employees and elected officials. It does seem to be very nearly a law of the universe that any increasing tax on capital would reduce investment in enterprise. In addition to tilting the risk/benefit calculus away from investing, taxing capital moves money into the (incredibly efficient, wise, evenhanded and sober) control of the legislature, and anyone who thinks that is a good idea is beyond help. Reducing enterprise is the same thing as reducing the opportunity for labor to labor, and move some of that capital into their own pocket. The fundamental thing underlying all of this is the magic of the labor and imagination people exerted correctly onto things mined or grown to make stuff that is more valuable than it was before. Letting people do this without the close supervision of the ruling class is a big part of the magic of America. The more money we aim at those outside of the process (like government), the more difficult it becomes, and the less often the magic of wealth creation occurs, and the harder life is for WTP.
The question at hand was not about whether or not government or private individuals make better spending decisions. The question at hand was the differential treatment of capital gains and ordinary income. I agree whole-heartedly that it is better to leave capital in the hands of the private sector and keep as much as possible away from the elected, appointed and civil service spendthrifts. On this we agree.
While I would love to live in a world where there are no taxes, that is not the reality. The gov't requires revenue to function. (I do not want to debate the level of spending, it is clearly out of control). The question then becomes what is the most equitable way to raise that revenue.
To borrow a phrase from above, replacing the revenues from income taxes with sales taxes is stupid.
Sales taxes are fundamentally regressive. Sales, or consumption, taxes hit the citizens in the lower socio-economic classes the hardest because they are the people who have to spend the greatest percentage of their income on necessities and daily life. The poorer a family the more that goes out every day. The more prosperous a family, the lower the percentage of income that goes toward necessary consumption. Replacing income taxes with sales taxes is horribly regressive and not good.
Income is income, regardless of source and should be taxed equally. To suggest that the wealthy will not invest if the capital gains rate is raised is simply not true. Once again, sheer sophistry.
Per your rationale that investment will fall if capital gains rates are increased, please tell me why people are still going to work when their efforts are taxed at 37%???? Why are they not staying at home and with holding their labor? For the same reason that the wealthy will continue to invest. Because they have to. And let's be clear.... the vast majority of the capital being invested now is coming from 401k funds, university endowments, public employee pension funds, etc. A great deal of it is also outside of the public capital markets and controlled by private equity funds, hedge funds, etc. They will not close their doors if the cap gains rate is increased. They will continue to invest. Sheer BS that it will choke off investment
The highest marginal ordinary income tax rate at the Federal level is 37% and the long term capital gains rate is 20%. That is not a difference of 17% it is a difference of 85%. Please tell me why ordinary income should be taxed at a rate that is 85% higher than capital gains?
Last edited on 13 Feb 2022, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.
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