Really? I thought it might be payload challenged, but I didn't realize it was that bad.

I think the Eclipse full fuel payload is significantly better, I've seen ones with over 700 lbs left, primarily because it carries less fuel to go the same range due to the efficiency of flying higher on two engines. Jet twins are MORE efficient than singles, which piston folk don't understand.


They are pushing certification limits to go higher on one engine. They managed to incrementally eek out a few thousand, but they aren't getting to FL410 unless there are major rule changes.

When you are flying at FL410, 82% of the atmosphere is below you. You are a space ship. If you went out an airlock on the ISS, that would be only 18% worse than depressurization at FL410. You will lose consciousness in 10 seconds, and die in a few minutes.

You want two independent sources of cabin pressurization at that altitude. It is possible to provide that with one engine (say APU, or battery backed electric compressor), but the complexity and weight of all that greatly exceeds just having a second engine, so the practical requirement is having two engines to fly at FL410.

Mike C.

I found a report this was $577/hour, 150 hour minimum per year. That's $86,550 minimum per year.

I presume this include the Williams TAP program. It should for that price. If it doesn't, well...

At a block speed of about 260 knots, this is $2.22 per mile.

At my block speeds, same cost per mile, would be $821 per hour. No fracking way my plane will cost me that much to maintain even if I booked money for top line engine overhauls. In other words, my Citation V costs less per mile to maintain than an SF50.

The purchase price is just the entry fee, Cirrus is making a lot of money after the sale since you are basically renting the airplane from them. The hourly price will only increase as the fleet gets older and Cirrus has to do more and more real work on them.

Cost of money is another issue. $3.5M out the door is $280,000 cost of money.

I can't afford to fly an SF50.


Saw that. If someone wants one, you can buy one today. If the backlog was so long why are there so many on the market unsold?

Saw an empty weight of 3608 lbs. I think that results in a full fuel payload of 392 lbs. Even for two people, that's not much luggage they can take with them. My wife and I would be limited to 25 lbs, a light carry on.

The 4 occupant range of the Eclipse EA500 is significantly better. The SF50 may have nice large comfy seats, but you are limited to shorter flights if you want to use them.

Mike C.

Thinking about this, if I am going to spend 3.5M on a jet, do I want a small butt ugly Jet that won’t carry very much , very far or very high. The answer is NO, there are better choices that are more cost effective.

A list of reasons why a guy buys a Cirrus Jet.

1. My wife will fly in it.
2. My wife will fly in it.
3. My wife will fly in it.
4. My wife will fly in it.
5. I can buy it. (because my wife will let me)

A list of reasons why a guy buys a Cirrus Jet.

1. My wife will fly in it.
2. My wife will fly in it.
3. My wife will fly in it.
4. My wife will fly in it.
5. I can buy it. (because my wife will let me)

Those are the guys with the most to lose in a divorce.

I think people with the ability to accumulate 3.5M in spare change don’t need permission from anyone to buy a Jet.

There's a jet owner named Mike over on the turboprop vs citation thread saying that his financial risk of having a jet engine failure is so low as to be non-calculable, even when he's carrying two engines.

There's a jet owner named Mike on this thread saying that single engine jets are a dead end because of the high risk of engine failure and that smart people only fly twinjets.

I wonder what would happen if those two Mikes ever met.

Not to agree or disagree with either point of view, but to me having a second engine to keep you pressurized and aloft helps deal with a failure scenario better, especially with any sort of terrain or water below

The prospect of depending on one engine in the flight levels is precarious when it fails, you are on battery, oxygen, and gliding- assuming there’s no fire or ice to deal with

I guess that’s where the chute is the joker card

I supply hangars to some of the richest people in CA. I don’t know that any of them has to get permission from their spouses.

My wife wanted to see the inside of a meridian before she’d even talk about one.

We went and sat in one. Done box checked.

A list of reasons why a guy buys a Cirrus Jet.

1. My wife will fly in it.
2. My wife will fly in it.
3. My wife will fly in it.
4. My wife will fly in it.
5. I can buy it. (because my wife will let me)

Among all the SEJ wannabees, most tried to certify to FL410 or similar high altitudes. PiperJet, DiamondJet, EA400, Stratos, etc. They never made it.

Cirrus was the only one to acknowledge that an SEJ won't get to high altitude. They accepted the fact the plane would be crippled by this.

They specifically stated they were building the slowest, lowest jet. After great effort, and nearly bankrupting the company, they managed to do. They took 13 years from initial work to first delivery. So much for an SEJ being easier to design, build, and deliver.

Not a single established maker of twin jets even lifting a finger to enter the SEJ market. They know it is a dead end.

Mike C.

Does the old adage "if she's not happy, you're not happy" not apply in that world?

Ever see the SYFY TV show Twelve Monkeys? That there would be a temporal paradox. You don't want to see that.