25 Jun 2025, 08:21 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 09 Aug 2023, 16:34 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1930 Post Likes: +1576 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: Sorry, this is for the flight deck fire extinguisher under the copilot seat, not an engine fire bottle. I bought a new one (C352TS) from Textron. $452 plus $11.07 shipping. Chris I thought that the FAA gives pretty wide latitude to UL listed handheld fire extinguishers; can I ask why you purchased from Textron?
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 10 Aug 2023, 12:53 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1635 Post Likes: +1698 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: Chris I thought that the FAA gives pretty wide latitude to UL listed handheld fire extinguishers; can I ask why you purchased from Textron? Well, from my brief research, the price for a C352TS was $452 no matter where I bought it and I had credit with Textron through my CJP membership. I also like Textron's shipping prices and Ground is overnight for me as I am close to Wichita.
Amerex does list a B385TS which is a 2.5lb "Halotron I" extinguisher for $234 but I don't know if Halotron is the same as Halon 1211. The product description makes them seem interchangeable but the last thing I want on a ramp check is the wrong fire extinguisher. Amerex also has something called "Halotron BRX" that they say is a Halon 1211 replacement but a quick search for the 347TS model yields a price of $2,496!
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 07:34 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 6322 Post Likes: +3087 Company: RNP Aviation Services Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: The problem is that Halon 1211 used in the C352TS is restricted and no one is allowed to recharge them. You can buy new ones only because aviation has an exception. This is why your mechanic said to buy a new one.
So now we have this odd situation that the rules try to lower the amount of Halon 1211 in the world due to its global warming potential, but in effect, the rules cause people to buy new ones every 6 years and a bunch of old ones sit around and will eventually leak out. It would be far less harmful to allow recovery and recharge than having to buy new ones all the time.
Some shops will still do it. I just had a six year inspection done on a customers airplane, and they said they could do the 12 year on my 414's extinguisher. Cost out the door for the six year was $123.36. The 12-year wasn't much more IIRC. The six month took a couple days as they sent it over to a different office to do the work. This is who I used: https://summitfire.com/
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 08:36 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 6322 Post Likes: +3087 Company: RNP Aviation Services Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: The problem is that Halon 1211 used in the C352TS is restricted and no one is allowed to recharge them. You can buy new ones only because aviation has an exception. This is why your mechanic said to buy a new one.
So now we have this odd situation that the rules try to lower the amount of Halon 1211 in the world due to its global warming potential, but in effect, the rules cause people to buy new ones every 6 years and a bunch of old ones sit around and will eventually leak out. It would be far less harmful to allow recovery and recharge than having to buy new ones all the time.
Some shops will still do it. I just had a six year inspection done on a customers airplane, and they said they could do the 12 year on my 414's extinguisher. Cost out the door for the six year was $123.36. The 12-year wasn't much more IIRC. The six month took a couple days as they sent it over to a different office to do the work. This is who I used: https://summitfire.com/
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 09:27 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20387 Post Likes: +25571 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Some shops will still do it. I just had a six year inspection done on a customers airplane, and they said they could do the 12 year on my 414's extinguisher. Cost out the door for the six year was $123.36. What model unit did you have? Wondering if it is a Halon 1211 type. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 09:27 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 3435 Post Likes: +4970 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: I will fly commercial before I go back to flying a Prop plane. Have you flown commercial lately? I'd rather fly with a prop than fly commercial for sure! Mike C. Not even close. I will fly a DA40 cross country before flying commercial  I really don’t like the meat packing machines that load the giant smelly busses, the toxic sock walk of shame through the security scanners, and never knowing once you get on a plane, when you are getting off. Never knowing if the next night you spend is going to be in a plastic chair at an airport. Even at 140 knots beats that stress. I only fly commercial under duress, and usually only if our M600 and my buddy’s DA40 is not available. PS: I learn a lot from Chip and MC. Seems sporty at times, but doesn’t seem like personal attacks.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 11:54 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4881 Post Likes: +5528 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: I will fly commercial before I go back to flying a Prop plane. Have you flown commercial lately? I'd rather fly with a prop than fly commercial for sure! Mike C. I just flew a King Air across the country eastbound and commercial westbound. The B200 was 5.8 hours door to door and United was 12.0 hours door to door. Neither trip had any delays. I'll take a turboprop over the airlines anywhere in the continental US.
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 13:52 |
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Joined: 12/07/17 Posts: 6976 Post Likes: +5869 Company: Malco Power Design Location: KLVJ
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
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Username Protected wrote: I'll take a turboprop over the airlines anywhere in the continental US.
I’ve long ago decided that the Baron is how I get to any destination in North America.
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 14:25 |
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Joined: 01/17/21 Posts: 92 Post Likes: +42
Aircraft: C550
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Username Protected wrote: Funny that because I said I won’t personally own or fly a prop plane after flying the Jet all these prop guys have to say they would. LOL. Ok that’s great. You can do you, I will be me.
It’s OK that I won’t do something that you would do and vise verse.
For me it’s not worth the risk for me and my family. Sure props can be flown safely and are every day. But for me the anxiety of taking off in a prop that can lose an engine and have a hard time climbing or worse trying to kill you isn’t worth it for me. I had no idea how safe the jet could be. I have zero anxiety taking off in my jet that can climb 1000fpm on single engine and it’s a non event if it happens, which it won’t. Totally different thing in my opinion.
You can disagree all you want and say you are fine with that risk but that won’t change my mind. I have done both and don’t want to fly a prop.
I may have to sell my 501sp because we are building a vacation home and can’t have both. My Son asked me if I would get a smaller plane and I said no. Not going back to props.
Mike I feel the same way about the safety of the jet. Single engine is a non event .
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Post subject: Re: A year in the life of a Citation V, 2022 Expenses Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 16:39 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4881 Post Likes: +5528 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: Funny that because I said I won’t personally own or fly a prop plane after flying the Jet all these prop guys have to say they would. LOL. Ok that’s great. You can do you, I will be me.
It’s OK that I won’t do something that you would do and vise verse.
For me it’s not worth the risk for me and my family. Sure props can be flown safely and are every day. But for me the anxiety of taking off in a prop that can lose an engine and have a hard time climbing or worse trying to kill you isn’t worth it for me. I had no idea how safe the jet could be. I have zero anxiety taking off in my jet that can climb 1000fpm on single engine and it’s a non event if it happens, which it won’t. Totally different thing in my opinion.
You can disagree all you want and say you are fine with that risk but that won’t change my mind. I have done both and don’t want to fly a prop.
I may have to sell my 501sp because we are building a vacation home and can’t have both. My Son asked me if I would get a smaller plane and I said no. Not going back to props.
Mike I (and I think others) interpreted your preference as one of convenience, not safety. There's no doubt that my risk level for the long day on United was less than the risk level on the shorter day in my personal plane. You could argue that I raised the risk on the commercial leg by adding an extra driving segment at both ends, but I think that that's just fool's math - the United day was a safer day. 
Last edited on 11 Aug 2023, 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
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