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13 Nov 2025, 08:19 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 28 May 2016, 13:42 
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Username Protected wrote:

What I meant by "going Airbus" is the philosophy that the automation corrects the pilot, taking control of the plane if the human does something the computer thinks is a "mistake". Airbus (and now Piper to some extent) believe the computer is more reliable than the human.

Mike C.


In small GA, pretty safe assumption. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 28 May 2016, 13:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
But it may greatly reduced the frequency of situations where lack of skill has a penalty. That's still a win.

Is it?

Sounds logical, but the more the machine does, the more accustomed the pilot becomes to letting the machine protect him. Then one day, it doesn't and he isn't ready for that.

This is why the FAA is pushing for my hand flying even in highly automated aircraft. The automation can hide lack of true proficiency.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 28 May 2016, 13:55 
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Username Protected wrote:

I'm looking at that photo wondering how you get in that pilots seat.


Pretty much the same technique you use getting into any cabin class aircraft. Almost all of them require some combination of bending over, lifting yourself over a pedestal or seat and then settling in. These aren't SUV's, most are made to be comfortable once in place, but as space for the pilot is a premium, there is not one extra inch of room. Here are some Biz class aircraft, PC12, M2, Bz jet, 8-14 seats. The one close up is the M2. With the seat all the way against the bulkhead. Seats are fairly comfortable, but once in place I can't even twitch without hitting something. A good bit smaller than my M500. That was a big shock looking at a $5 mil owner flown plane.

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Chuck Ivester
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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2016, 18:33 
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Piper announced today that the M600 is certified. They beat all their teaser numbers and promises. They also kept the 250 knot Vmo, which required a minor wing modification. SO they are stating 274 KTAS instead of the promised 260, 1484 nm plus IFR reserves instead of 1200 nm. Anyone want to loan me the money??? Promise I am good for it. :D

http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... tification

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Chuck Ivester
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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2016, 19:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
Piper announced today that the M600 is certified. They beat all their teaser numbers and promises. They also kept the 250 knot Vmo, which required a minor wing modification. SO they are stating 274 KTAS instead of the promised 260, 1484 nm plus IFR reserves instead of 1200 nm. Anyone want to loan me the money??? Promise I am good for it. :D

http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... tification

That's a big deal for Piper. It's a great looking airplane. 1400NM range is great too. It's an airline killer. Certified to FL300...... Love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2016, 19:36 
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Gonna hurt TBM sales quite a bit, this one, I think. The slightly bigger size and better specs of the TBM are great, but is it worth $2 million more to go 200nm further and 40kts faster? Maybe. Maybe not.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2016, 20:06 
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Gonna hurt TBM sales quite a bit, this one, I think. The slightly bigger size and better specs of the TBM are great, but is it worth $2 million more to go 200nm further and 40kts faster? Maybe. Maybe not.

The bottom line is there are a lot of new turbines coming to market. There are no new pistons coming to market. I think in a few years, nice turbines will be as cheap as a nice bonanza.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2016, 00:05 
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Yikes. I hope not Jason. I finally am getting ready to close on a Meridian. I'd hate to think I'd have to sell it for what I just sold my Bo for down the road. :) Your advice to just do it now because life fly by was in the back of my head constantly. Yet it took me almost a year for the right time and right plane.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2016, 00:30 
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Yikes. I hope not Jason. I finally am getting ready to close on a Meridian. I'd hate to think I'd have to sell it for what I just sold my Bo for down the road. :) Your advice to just do it now because life fly by was in the back of my head constantly. Yet it took me almost a year for the right time and right plane.


You won't regret it Greg. Kind of like the pop song "said no-one ever" Wish I had not moved up to a turbine!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eMBGyBScpw

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2016, 00:41 
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I hope you're right Chuck! I've been looking forward to it for years. My daughter is going to school at the U in SLC. I'd love to buy you lunch sometime and pick your brain about your turbine experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2016, 00:47 
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Anytime.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2016, 02:58 
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Yikes. I hope not Jason. I finally am getting ready to close on a Meridian. I'd hate to think I'd have to sell it for what I just sold my Bo for down the road. :) Your advice to just do it now because life fly by was in the back of my head constantly. Yet it took me almost a year for the right time and right plane.

I'm not trying to scare anyone. I'm could be totally wrong. I'm just looking at the market and discussing what I see. It just seems to me even Cirrus has built its own replacement to the SR22 with the SF50.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2016, 18:39 
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Maybe i missed this in the thread, but it appears Piper got the type cert and the plane is faster and goes farther than originally planned.

http://www.flyingmag.com/piper-m600-ear ... tification

That will be a very economical owner flown turbine.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2016, 19:37 
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Username Protected wrote:

That will be a very economical owner flown turbine.


Best of all, it will be a nice step up for people coming out of pistons that want the range and payload of the TBM, but don't want the complexity or unforgiving flight characteristics of the TBM. It is 15% slower, but burns 40% less fuel. Not to mention a million dollars cheaper. They both have 5 year spinner to tail warranties and 7 year engine warranties, but maintaining a Piper is a lot less than maintaining a TBM once you are out of warranty.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper announces the new M600 and improvements to the M35
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2016, 20:03 
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Username Protected wrote:

That will be a very economical owner flown turbine.


Best of all, it will be a nice step up for people coming out of pistons that want the range and payload of the TBM, but don't want the complexity or unforgiving flight characteristics of the TBM. It is 15% slower, but burns 40% less fuel. Not to mention a million dollars cheaper. They both have 5 year spinner to tail warranties and 7 year engine warranties, but maintaining a Piper is a lot less than maintaining a TBM once you are out of warranty.


Chuck,

That is funny that you are talking about out of warranty costs. I didn't think you kept an aircraft long enough for it to be out of warranty!

Jimmy Elza

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