I flew a CJ3 last week with the PL21 and the autopilot seemed great. How does the GFC700 compare?

Is the PL21 AP known to be crappy?

This is actually not correct. The CJ1+ has the PL21 - I fly my buddies CJ1+ occasionally and though I'm partial to the G1000, the PL21 is an excellent system.

Excluding the M2 which has the G3000 (arguably better than anything available before), there are 3 flavors of CJ's to go by:

1. Straight CJ which has the Honeywell system and can be upgraded with dual GTNs or the G1000. Each path has its benefits - G1000 comes with about a 150-200# BEW decrease which equates to an extra passenger.

2. CJ1 which is a half integrated PL21 aircraft - navs are still the CNI-5000, FMS is the UNS-1K, and it does not have FADEC - it is also 150# heavier than the Straight CJ with the HW system. IMHO this is the least desirable of the variants.

3. CJ1+ has a fully integrated PL21 system with FADEC and the Collins FMS-3000. It is a nice aircraft but at the price point that it sells you can get a low time straight CJ, put P&I and do the G1000 and have money left in your pocket. The CJ1+ has 200# of extra thrust per side and a GW increase of 200#, but that is eaten up by the additional weight (nearly 600# heavier than the straight CJ).

All three variants have comparable speed, range, and performance although the CJ1+ does climb slightly faster to altitude when light.

This is actually not correct. The CJ1+ has the PL21 - I fly my buddies CJ1+ occasionally and though I'm partial to the G1000, the PL21 is an excellent system.

Excluding the M2 which has the G3000 (arguably better than anything available before), there are 3 flavors of CJ's to go by:

1. Straight CJ which has the Honeywell system and can be upgraded with dual GTNs or the G1000. Each path has its benefits - G1000 comes with about a 150-200# BEW decrease which equates to an extra passenger.

2. CJ1 which is a half integrated PL21 aircraft - navs are still the CNI-5000, FMS is the UNS-1K, and it does not have FADEC - it is also 150# heavier than the Straight CJ with the HW system. IMHO this is the least desirable of the variants.

3. CJ1+ has a fully integrated PL21 system with FADEC and the Collins FMS-3000. It is a nice aircraft but at the price point that it sells you can get a low time straight CJ, put P&I and do the G1000 and have money left in your pocket. The CJ1+ has 200# of extra thrust per side and a GW increase of 200#, but that is eaten up by the additional weight (nearly 600# heavier than the straight CJ).

All three variants have comparable speed, range, and performance although the CJ1+ does climb slightly faster to altitude when light.

Got it.

The CJ3 I flew ran great. The PL21 AP (whatever it was) was great.

I ask because I really lean in the direction of a CJ3 with PL21 because of the "G1000 ADSB for Baron and Bonanza" thread. I think an older airframe that has multiple upgrade options is a smarter direction than a bird with the avionics certified into the airplane like the Phenoms.

The pilot I flew with had the Stratus linked to his iPad and I was amazed at how cool the iPad stuff is. The iPad will just get better and better faster. Seems keep the panel mount stuff simple is the way to go.

I guess its semantics - I understand the "CJ" to include all 525s (CJ, CJ1, CJ1+ and M2s). The full PL21 is available only on the CJ1+. But if you want to be precise, you're right - straight CJ never had a PL.

I guess its semantics - I understand the "CJ" to include all 525s (CJ, CJ1, CJ1+ and M2s). The full PL21 is available only on the CJ1+. But if you want to be precise, you're right - straight CJ never had a PL.

Cessna is the worst at confusing names and name changes and going from numbers to names back to numbers.

Allen. How is the M2 being received? Owners like them?

I would not say the CJ3 is "an older airframe that has multiple upgrade options". RC has said the CJ3 PL21 can be upgraded to ADSB-OUT and that is as far as it will go with NEXTGEN features. RC is working on certifying a Proline Fusion upgrade path for the CJ3 to be available sometime in 2017.

PL Fusion has touch screens, ADSB-OUT, CDPLC, syn vision, and more.

A CJ3 will fly fine after 2020 with PL21 WAAS and ADSB-OUT and have an upgrade path to Proiline Fusion.

From what I have read owners like the M2. Many nice improvements in comfort, speed, and range from the Mustang and CJ1+. It has had typical new model issues that Cessna is fixing. Don't buy the first 100 SN if you want a smooth new ownership experience is still a good rule.

Well, it already has Fusion coming down the pipe.

There are a lot of PL21 CJ's out there. Upgrades will happen.

How many G1000 Phenoms will ever be upgradeable? and to what? If handheld stuff keeps advancing at the pace it is do you not think eventually the need for super fancy/expensive panel mount stuff will go away?

For example...... I really really encouraged my buddy to buy a 2005 A36 instead of the later model G36 Bonanza. The avionics are too integrated and they made too few of them. Long term, I think the A36's will be worth more $$.

I thought the whole CJ3 Alpine edition thing did a G3000 and maybe those winglets.

That was for the CJ2+, was never certified, and from what I hear the project has been cancelled.

Best thing coming out of that was it got Rockwell Collins to invest in developing an STC for a Proline Fusion upgrade. Competition is good.

No one other then Cessna or RC can likely develop a full panel upgrade for the PL21 Citations.

From what I have read owners like the M2. Many nice improvements in comfort, speed, and range from the Mustang and CJ1+. It has had typical new model issues that Cessna is fixing. Don't buy the first 100 SN if you want a smooth new ownership experience is still a good rule.

M2 production was moved to Independence from CJ1 line in Wichita. New location, new people, new problems.