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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2015, 15:18 
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Publicity :thumbup:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tiny-priv ... 01202.html


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2015, 17:31 
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Username Protected wrote:

"The V-shaped tail means it's a lot easier to control the aircraft for beginner pilots."

WTF?


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2015, 17:35 
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Username Protected wrote:

"The V-shaped tail means it's a lot easier to control the aircraft for beginner pilots."

WTF?

:lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2015, 23:57 
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Username Protected wrote:

"The V-shaped tail means it's a lot easier to control the aircraft for beginner pilots."

WTF?

So a twin with a V- tail would be the SAFEST airplane. Bay had it right years ago...

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 00:18 
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The V-shaped tail means it's a lot easier to control the aircraft for beginner pilots, and the simplicity allows owner-pilots more "lifestyle pursuits than any other personal aircraft," according to Cirrus.

What is a "lifestyle pursuit"? Why does an SF50 provide more of them?

Maybe this is code for pilots who have high ego to competence ratios and need something to impress others with.

In the event of an emergency or plane systems malfunction, a huge parachute will deploy, allowing the entire plane to float safely to the ground without propulsion.

Cool, the chute is automatic and comes out whenever there is danger. Must use the same technology as peril sensitive sunglasses worn by Zaphod Beeblebrox.


If the majority of SF50 owners are the kind of people this article targets, expect a bad safety record.

Marketing kills by over promising the simplicity and safety of the aircraft.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 08:21 
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>"The V-shaped tail means it's a lot easier to control the aircraft for beginner pilots."
>
> WTF?

It is a mighty poor pilot that can only handle two pieces of tail.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 11:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
It is a mighty poor pilot that can only handle two pieces of tail.

The SF50 has FOUR pieces of tail. It isn't a V tail, it is an X tail.

It appears the production airplane has control surfaces on the LOWER surfaces which is unusual. Are they only for trim? Do they move with the main surfaces?

Also note the incredibly large ruddervators and the very large trim tabs they have.

There is a lot of complicated stuff going on in the tail of this airplane.

Mike C.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 12:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
It isn't a V tail, it is an X tail.

Not THAT is cool!

OK, Tim, he's kicking it up again. Go ahead. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 12:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
It isn't a V tail, it is an X tail.

Not THAT is cool!

OK, Tim, he's kicking it up again. Go ahead. ;)


Start with the simple ones.
-- Why does ruddervator surface area matter?
-- Without weight and balance information, specifically the lift and the weight information there is no way to know if Cirrus replicated standard airplane configuration with CG in front of CL and the tail providing downward force. Or if the followed the original V-Tail and made the tail an actual flying surface. In which case a large tail makes a lot of sense.
-- Why does trim size matter?

Tim

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 12:49 
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Joined: 05/17/11
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I was always told "size doesn't matter" ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 12:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
I was always told "size doesn't matter" ;)


Was it then followed by "we can still be friends"?


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 12:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
I was always told "size doesn't matter" ;)


Was it then followed by "we can still be friends"?


More like, "So tell me about your job again" :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 13:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
It isn't a V tail, it is an X tail.

Not THAT is cool!

OK, Tim, he's kicking it up again. Go ahead. ;)


:coffee:
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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 14:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
-- Why does ruddervator surface area matter?

Larger is an indication of needing more control authority, an indication of the fixed portion of the surface being somewhat undersize despite how large they already are.

Larger is heavier control forces, higher control friction, and higher surface inertia. This is particularly an issue with needing an elevator/rudder mixer which adds to all of that. The additional linkage to the nosewheel steering further adds to it as well.

Larger control surfaces are more susceptible to flutter.

Larger surfaces make the plane heavier just from being larger, but also from needing heavier balance weights.

Larger will affect the yaw damper requirements. The heavier surface means slower response and less yaw damping benefit. Perhaps the ventral surfaces are there only for the yaw damper just for that reason, at added complexity, weight, and cost.

Quote:
-- Without weight and balance information, specifically the lift and the weight information there is no way to know if Cirrus replicated standard airplane configuration with CG in front of CL and the tail providing downward force. Or if the followed the original V-Tail and made the tail an actual flying surface. In which case a large tail makes a lot of sense.

For every pound of lift you can get on the tail (be it up OR down), only a percentage of that is in the direction of gravity (pitch trim) and the remainder has to be balanced by an opposite lift on the other side. Thus the V or X tail creates more lift and induced drag for any given vertical lift required. If you are looking for lift from the tail, using a V tail is a bad way to do it.

Quote:
-- Why does trim size matter?

Further indicates control surface needs lots of deflection to handle trim requirements. A plane that has a large speed range needs lots of trim authority.

No one outside Cirrus has flown an SF50 so no one outside Cirrus knows how it handles. Now the production aircraft has larger ventrals with moving control surfaces. Indicates to me that they are trying to solve some stability problems they did not expect.

I will be very curious to hear how it rides in turbulence. The large bulbous nose has divergent properties that the oversize tail has to overcome. I could easily see the plane wandering around in turbulence uncomfortably.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2015, 14:16 
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Joined: 01/11/10
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I love it, this thing just keeps getting more awesome.


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