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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2013, 17:16 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:

But let's not shift the focus of this argument. A huge 'pro' for the jet column vs a TP is being able to top 98% of weather in smooth comfort at FL410 or so, when TP guys are having to fly through or around it. Admit it or not, this is a big deal.

This is not a big deal......

Flying out of Atlanta, you're never getting to 41K unless your destination is west of Mississippi. You're not "topping weather" when you're descending into a socked in airport. The benefit you quote would be so ridiculously rare that I would never consider a "pro" much less a "HUGE" pro..

My last 2 coast to coast trips, anything I diverted around, everyone was diverting around. And, my divert added a few minutes to my flight. Not like I had to fly 100 miles out of the way. It's been a non factor so far.


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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2013, 17:49 
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Joined: 08/05/11
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Aircraft: BE-55
It's like this: you want a Harley, with that special thunka-thunka, or a Honda with that ping-ping? TP's are antiquated compared to that Whoosh sound of a jet.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2013, 17:54 
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
I figure my plane with me flying NOT including cost of money is $650-$750 per hour.

There is a fractional Cirrus program here in Atlanta and they are getting SF50's. They are quoting $800 per hour as a cost to the fractional owners.


I've got a partner flying a PC12 and the last time I asked their pilot it was about $600/hr not including the cost of capital.

Aircraft loans are about 4.25% now, give or take a hundred basis points. That makes the cost of capital $283 an hour for 300 hours a year. If the operating expenses can be held to $500 an hour I see where they might be getting close on $800/hr. I do not believe, however, that the opex will only be $500 an hour.


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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2013, 18:42 
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote:
I figure my plane with me flying NOT including cost of money is $650-$750 per hour.

There is a fractional Cirrus program here in Atlanta and they are getting SF50's. They are quoting $800 per hour as a cost to the fractional owners.


I've got a partner flying a PC12 and the last time I asked their pilot it was about $600/hr not including the cost of capital.

Aircraft loans are about 4.25% now, give or take a hundred basis points. That makes the cost of capital $283 an hour for 300 hours a year. If the operating expenses can be held to $500 an hour I see where they might be getting close on $800/hr. I do not believe, however, that the opex will only be $500 an hour.

Probably right. I've never really run the numbers since I bought mine. Doesn't really matter anymore I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 16:47 
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Joined: 09/06/11
Posts: 337
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Company: METARmaps.com
Location: (KIWS) Houston, TX
Aircraft: M35
Let's see, the SF50 is:

V-Tail
Expensive(ish)
Easy to fly
Totally cool
Technologically advanced

Everything a BE35 was in its day.

Humm, do I smell another forked-tail doctor killer? :duck:

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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2014, 14:23 
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Joined: 02/22/12
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Aircraft: G36 turbo normalized
Saw one of these at the AOPA show in Chino on Saturday. Wow.


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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2014, 15:15 
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Joined: 12/16/07
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Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
Username Protected wrote:
SF50 fuel burn:

according to this, fuel burn should be less than 34 gph (I assume this is at the low cruise setting):

"As for target performance numbers, Cirrus is in no danger of breaking Klapmeier's promise to build the "lowest, slowest, shortest range" jet on the market... though the Vision is still making some impressive numbers in testing.

The VI prototype aircraft now flying as seen a maximum speed of 319 KTAS; Cirrus targets a 300 KTAS high speed cruise speed, with the best range of over 1,400 nm available at a more SR22-like 210 KTAS.

Speaking of the SR22, Klapmeier pointed out the piston-powered SR22 G3 Turbo burns 17 gallons of avgas per hour at 210 kts with two people onboard. "At slightly less than twice the fuel consumption, the Vision will carry twice as much," he said -- excellent performance for a turbine-powered aircraft
."


http://www.microjetnetwork.com/cirrus.htm


I really hope they do well, but in general, you just don't fly a turbine at low power settings. Long range cruise sounds great and may be useful at times, but that would be the exception. The largest reason given by our P&W guy for early overhaul, is running power settings too low and getting sulphur deposits on the turbine blades (the burn isn't hot enough to eliminate trace amounts in the fuel). My point is, if you want to stretch range on occasion to avoid a stop, fine, but don't plan on consistent long range fuel trips if you want to maintain engine health. Maybe the Williams is a bit different, but that applies to all the experience with P&Ws.
And we all know, you don't buy a turbine to go slow :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2014, 20:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
And we all know, you don't buy a turbine to go slow :)


+1

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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2014, 23:42 
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Joined: 08/28/11
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Company: N/A - Retired
Location: South Carolina
Username Protected wrote:
And we all know, you don't buy a turbine to go slow :)


Sure you do, a lot of people buy straight wing Citations.... :dancing:


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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2014, 13:04 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Username Protected wrote:
Sure you do, a lot of people buy straight wing Citations....

And King Airs... :stir: :duck:

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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2014, 13:13 
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Joined: 07/30/12
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Company: Aerlogix, Jet Aeronautical
Location: Prescott, AZ
Aircraft: B-55, RV-6
Take it easy! :rofl:


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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2014, 14:01 
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Joined: 08/02/09
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Company: Nantucket Rover Repair
Location: Manchester, NH (MHT)
Aircraft: Cessna N337JJ
Anyone know what the max speed is for parachute deployment on the jet?


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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2014, 16:15 
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IIRC about 190 to 200 knots. What the systems is designed to do when you pull the chute, is for the plane to pitch up in attitude to slow. The chute has a slider on it which keeps it from fully deploying until the air resistance at a level which allows full deployment.

I'm sure there are folks that can provide a more technically instructive explanation than that, but it's essentially what occurs.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2014, 16:16 
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Joined: 07/15/12
Posts: 230
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Location: Texas
Aircraft: G1000 182
Off topic but I find it incomprehensible that more manufacturers are not clamoring for BRS STCs on their aircraft. If for nothing else it makes the SE piston at least seem safe for night, mountain and overwater ops, plus you don't have that second engine waiting quietly to kill you. How many Cirri are sold on the parachute alone? Given how far in front of the TTx the G5 seems to be, I would say a lot.

I have a 182 and every few months I re-debate the chute option for it. For now, the answer is not to fly at night, but if I had even a bit more UL I would have one back there in a heartbeat. I really think a very small percentage of fatalities would be unequivically avoidable in the presence of a parachute, but the test pilots sure seem to like them and the idea of having a real shot at survival WITHOUT having to execute a flawless forced landing, at night in the mountains, sure makes me wish I had one.


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 Post subject: Re: The Cirrus SF50 VisionJet "Fast Track to Production"
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2014, 16:37 
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Joined: 05/17/11
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Location: KFRG
Aircraft: 421C
Oh boy....

:popcorn:


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