29 Nov 2025, 10:48 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian  Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 00:09 |
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Joined: 06/23/09
Posts: 2320
Post Likes: +720
Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
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Charles,
I just can't see spending 1.2 million on piston airplane? I know that's probably new. But personally would spend that on a older Meridian. At least for the majority of my missions.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 07:21 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12835
Post Likes: +5276
Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
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Username Protected wrote: Charles,
I just can't see spending 1.2 million on piston airplane? I know that's probably new. But personally would spend that on a older Meridian. At least for the majority of my missions. Yeah, for any purchase I'd make over $750K, I'd go for a Meridian. But there are a few niches where a Mirage beats a Meridian - nonstop range being a key one. (The Meridian proponents will retort that they (and their pax) don't like legs over 3 hours and that a Meridian making a stop may be same overall time or faster than a Mirage going non-stop. The Meridian throttled back to Mirage speeds also has substantially greater range than it does at normal cruise.)
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 08:54 |
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Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1626
Post Likes: +276
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
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Username Protected wrote: Most writers on this thread seem to think the turbine is worth the price/cost. Is this mostly a safety issue based on the reliability of the turbine, or are there other important factors? If the engine out safety record is somewhat similar, I would gladly give up the speed for the increased range, fuel efficiency and reduced acquisition costs (I am aware of the difference in TBO).
The major benefits of the turbine are speed and simplicity. The engine out safety record is similar in that engine failure fatalities are vanishingly rare in both machines. That is not to say each engine is equally reliable - turbine is better (but not perfect). But the piston PA46's glide really, really well. Given that most of your time is spent up high, there are lots of choices most times when an engine quits. PA46 pilots - piston or turbine - mostly kill perfectly good airplanes along with themselves. A mirage is a much better fit for a 1000nm trip than a Meridian. The Mirage can take 140 gals fuel with STC'd wingtip fuel ports. How much load do you need over that range? G1000 mirages aren't huge load haulers.
I pretty much agree with everything here. Being high is one big key to extra safety. It gives you more options. I cannot speak to the glide ability of a PA46 piston, but in my experience with other piston airplanes when you cut the engine, or at least slow it way down, the prop becomes a drag. In a turboprop you can feather the prop and you essentially become a really expensive glider. I heard about one guy that had a JetProp and was a glider pilot that decided one day to test the glide capability of his airplane, so he feathered the prop and was able to use thermals to maintain altitude for a half hour.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 11:17 |
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Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 12192
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Company: Looking
Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: In real-world, people moving ops in small(er than cabin class) aircraft, I think non-stop range is mostly a spreadsheet benefit, with some obvious, rarely needed (but priceless when needed) widespread-IFR alternate scenario benefits.
Nearly every airplane I've seen has more range than my family would tolerate. Of the ones I've owned, the Skylane is 6 hours to suddenly extremely lean of peak, and 58P is 5 and change.
Maybe they'd do 3-3.5 in the Baron willingly. Maybe. Jim, I am in the same boat. So I looked for planes with just over four hours endurance and can go as fast as I can afford.  Tim
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 11:24 |
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Joined: 08/03/08
Posts: 16153
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Location: 2W5
Aircraft: A36
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Username Protected wrote: I cannot speak to the glide ability of a PA46 piston, but in my experience with other piston airplanes when you cut the engine, or at least slow it way down, the prop becomes a drag. Piper managed to incorporate a feature where the crank flange comes right off when the engine locks up. By dropping the prop, you also get an aft CG to improve the glide range  .
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 12:39 |
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Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1626
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Location: Valparaiso, IN
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
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Username Protected wrote: I cannot speak to the glide ability of a PA46 piston, but in my experience with other piston airplanes when you cut the engine, or at least slow it way down, the prop becomes a drag. Piper managed to incorporate a feature where the crank flange comes right off when the engine locks up. By dropping the prop, you also get an aft CG to improve the glide range .
Wait, it drops the prop? If so how is that safe for anything below?
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 13:09 |
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Joined: 08/03/08
Posts: 16153
Post Likes: +8870
Location: 2W5
Aircraft: A36
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Username Protected wrote:
Wait, it drops the prop? If so how is that safe for anything below?
Sorry, was an attempt at being funny. A number of piston PA46 derivatives have lost their props after the crankshaft snapped, both on Conti and Lycoming engines.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 13:38 |
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Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1626
Post Likes: +276
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
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Username Protected wrote:
Wait, it drops the prop? If so how is that safe for anything below?
Sorry, was an attempt at being funny. A number of piston PA46 derivatives have lost their props after the crankshaft snapped, both on Conti and Lycoming engines.
Ah, haha, I was wondering. I guess it would have helped if I knew that bit of info, lol.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 13:38 |
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Joined: 03/18/09
Posts: 1162
Post Likes: +248
Company: Elemental - Pipistrel
Location: KHCR
Aircraft: Citation CJ2+
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Username Protected wrote: Charles,
I just can't see spending 1.2 million on piston airplane? I know that's probably new. But personally would spend that on a older Meridian. At least for the majority of my missions. Yeah, for any purchase I'd make over $750K, I'd go for a Meridian. But there are a few niches where a Mirage beats a Meridian - nonstop range being a key one. (The Meridian proponents will retort that they (and their pax) don't like legs over 3 hours and that a Meridian making a stop may be same overall time or faster than a Mirage going non-stop. The Meridian throttled back to Mirage speeds also has substantially greater range than it does at normal cruise.)
Hey, I resemble that remark! Actually, I think Charles is referring to a common two person interchange on MMOPA, where we have a guy, who, I personally think has the fastest mirage made to man, can run LOP. Man, he slugs it out with the meridian guys. I used to do that too, until I got a meridian, then I had to stop justifying why I didn't have a meridian... :-)
I didn't buy a meridian to go slow and range is my single largest complaint (right up there with baggage). Couldn't afford a TBM, so I got what I got.
For me, being able to climb at 1500-1900 fpm through weather, above terrain, and have a faster cruise is also very important and critical safety features at some airports. I never hear that talked about. Climbing out of icing is much nicer at 1500fpm than 500 in a malibu at 17,000 ft. There is also a HUGE difference in flying at 17,000-20,000 (which is where the piston variant should fly) to FL260-FL280, which is where the meridian flys. I am usually over most of that crappy weather in the summer.
_________________
--
Jason Talley
Pipistrel Distributor
http://www.elemental.aero
CJ2+
7GCBC
Pipsitrel Panthera
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 14:00 |
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Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6063
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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Sounds like a job for a TBM. Here is what a new TBM owner who previously flew a Cirrus and Meridian as to say. "I picked up my new (to me) 2005 TBM 700 C2 at Avex a week ago and flew back to KERI in PA. I had been flying a Meridian for about 15 months and should have listened to Joe Rainey's advice and gone right to the TBM from the Cirrus, but I'm here now." I know at least 8 previous Meridian owners who are flying TBM now and they all say they should have skip the Meridian. Username Protected wrote: I am a Cirrus driver and reasonably active on the COPA site. I am enjoying this site as well since I joined a couple of weeks ago.
I am intrigued by this post on the Meridian, as I have been thinking that my next "move up" would be the Mirage,not a Meridian. Most likely a 2008 or 2009 with the G1000 avionics, which my present plane has.
The Mirage while 50 kts slower burns half the fuel, has a 25% further range and costs probably $600k less, comparing similar year models.
A dream mission of mine, which my Cirrus cannot do, is Naples to Notre Dame non stop....a 960 NM trip. The Mirage with its 1,250 NM range seems to have the ability to do it. The Meridian not so much, with a similar range as my Cirrus at a little less than 1,000 NM.
Most writers on this thread seem to think the turbine is worth the price/cost. Is this mostly a safety issue based on the reliability of the turbine, or are there other important factors? If the engine out safety record is somewhat similar, I would gladly give up the speed for the increased range, fuel efficiency and reduced acquisition costs (I am aware of the difference in TBO).
What are your thoughts...
T
_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 14:35 |
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
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Marc, The problem with your statement about skipping the Meridian is it does not match budgets. Some of us are cash constrained. Tim
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Post subject: Re: Piper Meridian Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 15:01 |
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Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1626
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Location: Valparaiso, IN
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
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Username Protected wrote: Marc, The problem with your statement about skipping the Meridian is it does not match budgets. Some of us are cash constrained. Tim This is where I am at. I'm on the bubble of being able to afford a TBM and trying to skip the Meridian/Jetprop area. TBM is just such a better plane, that I think I'm just going to wait it out and get it when it's feasible.
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