What's even funnier is this N154GV was assigned well over a year ago in the FAA database but "Keith" in that pm made it sound like it was picked by him with a family tie with his "recent purchase". Lol.

Hey it's my fantasy to own one of these too.....but I'll just live vicariously through you guys and not post BS

Had this exact thing happen to client. Chartered a BeechJet 400. Day of trip to WV airport, they had some runway ice, braking action fair to poor. No can go. They end up driving 18 hours to make trade show they had to be at. I take my MU2 to the same show. A little over 1 hour in my plane, runway ice no factor.


This view of chartering is either expensive and rare, or hopelessly idealized. Try to do this for a 1 week trip around Christmas and see if you can call 1 hour before departure. Any charter company that can do that is charging WAY too much and has idle equipment and people sitting around.


No charter outfit has a better safety record than I do. As you say, the stats don't lie. :-)

Mike C.

I use my aircraft to make money. I could not do what I do, nor attract the human resources that I attract, nor see all the clientele I see without it. Aviation is making me money, no doubt about it.

It still pisses me off to pay such outrageous prices on things just because there are limited vendors. I'm still going to pay it though, because it's the cost of doing business.

If I had a less capable aircraft, I'd have an easier choice to make, but it's hard to compete with a Mits.

Mike C.

Todd, I think I am starting to see a pattern here.

LOL Thomas, yes!

Anyway, it's all good. Mike - Don't be too cocky about your safety stats though. On average GA (even multi-engine well trained GA) is not as safe a jet charter or airline and if expense is not a factor it is quicker to charter. I know very few people that make a last minute decision to charter 1 week before Christmas. Most people know what they are doing that time of year. As for landing on an icy runway, that could have been done in a KA90-350 just as easily. Our local outfit has everything from a 421 to a Hawker. Bring your checkbook and go anywhere within an hour.

Truer words were never spoken.

Get a parts, engine and labor program and your costs are pretty predictable. Buy your fuel smart and fly yourself. No possible way it is cheaper to charter. UNLESS you don't fly very often.

A charter company will incur these same costs...ok MAYBE they will have a labor cost advantage and a small parts cost advantage but that is way offset by deadhead costs, and profit and Part 135 transaction costs.

I own, have charted and am now leasing as y'all probably know. When I go on my annual vacation with nieces and Granddaughters, chartering just won't work. Have to get them in Wisconsin to where we're staying in Florida (Bahamas last year). I have to get there from Dallas. Daughter and family from SC. We move a couple times during the trip or island hop. I've called and there are re-position fees and availability issues. It's difficult enough for me to get a co-pilot for these flights. Might try this year, but there is simply nothing more convenient than sitting around one evening and deciding where to go the next morning in one's own plane that will hold six others. We go when we want to go, where we want to go and take what fits in an SUV. Charter can work sometimes. It's great for straight somewhere and back or even some connections. When I start talking about three different groups of family linking up, then shuttling them somewhere like different destinations on different dates, especially, places like different Bahamas Island, better have a very big check book and a lot of flexibility. And, you don't get to have any fun like flying the plane!

Big difference using it for a toy vs using it for business. I would agree for a toy it is better to own, especially if you are paying for everyone to fly and picking up people in different places.

Mr. Hangen - The reason why charter can do it cheaper is due to the plane flying 500 hours per year. Furthermore, if you figure *your* time as pilot, director of maintenance, time spent on training, education, re-positioning the plane for new paint, interior, software upgrades, etc. Most guys here (from the wealth poll I did a few months back - especially the turboprop and jet guys) make $500k-$5M per year. If you break that down to a 50 hour work week you are looking at an hourly wage of $225 to $2000 per hour. Tell me that spending 2 weeks of your time screwing around with the plane and all of it's needs is cheaper when you figure your time. It is not and never will be for anyone living in a populated area. Your time spent on the plane is worth $20k to $200k depending on your income.

Correct, but I also would like to point out, as much as we all like to create the aura of being busy all the time, most wealthy folks I know tend to work in spurts. Might do an 80 hour week and then show up to the office 3 times for next 2 weeks. So I would say, once you make, it's actually closer to between $1000 and $8000 an hour of real work But on the other hand, unless you're just obsessed with $$$, you would not be doing anything else productive with your time, well, other than sitting on beech talk...

If you fly the minimum hours required for the specified maintenance programs the actual cost per hour should not vary. It is true that the capex/dep may be smaller per hour flown but the focus I thought was on operating cost.

As others have pointed out....infrequent out and back trips charter has an advantage.

50 hour work week - hahahahaha please

That is my point. We are working more than 50 hours. I was just using it for reference. I am literally working all the time. I may not be actively working with customers, but I am on the computer looking for properties and connections if I am not sleeping. I took off a week to work on my Duke. To have the shop do it would have cost me $15k. I did the repairs for $6k sourcing parts mostly. During that time I missed the opportunity to buy 3 homes that would have made $30k each. Net loss was $80k because I wanted to save $9k. If you pay someone to do the work on your MU2 without you being bothered you will spend $1000 per hour to fly the plane all in costs.

Todd - Owning an airplane made all the sense in the world to Sam Walton. In fact, he wouldn't have been able to build a business like he did without it. If your work is constrained to a single location out of a computer, you are probably correct.

If you are running a multi-location (city/state/country) operation, an aircraft is an invaluable business tool. No question about it. The benefits then go beyond the cost of the engine program or the gallon of fuel.

A shovel will be cheaper than a backhoe any day of the week - but you won't grow a business shoveling dirt by hand no matter how cheap it is, or hiring somebody to come dig a hole with their backhoe if you're in the business of digging holes.

The reason charter is more expensive is that they have to pay salaries to 2 pilots, DOM, and customer people, plus they have to meet 135 rules, which usually means they have to abide by all the SBs issues against their airplanes (some of which are monstrously expensive). Oh, don't forget the MUCH higher insurance premiums, too, plus renting the office at the airport, plus professional dispatch, plus...

I submit that all of the above more than cancels the higher utilization benefits.

Proof is that I've never seen a charter rate cheaper than a 100 hour a year owner can achieve.


Doesn't count, as you would be a passenger during that time regardless.

Do we get to count the hours you spend waiting for the charter to arrive because it got delayed on someone else's flight?


Those people need to hire someone to sleep for them. They are wasting $millions doing that!

Mike C.

Pilot when you own also entails being the weather briefer, scheduler, DM, baggage handler, rental car agent, yearly training time, etc.

Anyway, done arguing. If your plane saves you money that is great.