Not many would argue that the 930 is more capable than M500/600 but it comes at a 40-50% higher acquisition cost. It had better be more capable. The M500/600 is quite attractive for those who don't have the capital for a TBM.

Not many would argue that the 930 is more capable than M500/600 but it comes at a 40-50% higher acquisition cost. It had better be more capable. The M500/600 is quite attractive for those who don't have the capital for a TBM.

$4.1 for the 930???

Yikes - who picks the TBM over a Pilatus at that price?

People who prefer Brie to Ementhaler?

Seriously, the Pilatus needs a lot more hangar, doesn't it?

Ras

I wonder what happens if the computer attitude input source goes wrong and it tries to "level" you to an unusual attitude based on bad input?


Couldn't the panicked pilot press and hold down the autopilot disconnect button and thus defeat this feature?

Piper has gone Airbus.

Mike C.

Same equipped PC12 will be $5m.
Someone who want speed over size.

As Piper move that spar back in the M600?
With a new wing that spar will be bigger.





That spar is an issue. Of course the new M-series have the seat backs over instead of in front of the spar that gives a good bit more room. As I said, I actually bring my seat forward 1-2 clicks, whereas in the older birds, I had it all the way back and still wanted a little more.

With the new fold flat seats, you can roll into the new M-class birds if you need to

Here is my last Meridian. Note the seat-backs now go over instead of being blocked by the spar.

I wonder what happens if the computer attitude input source goes wrong and it tries to "level" you to an unusual attitude based on bad input?


Couldn't the panicked pilot press and hold down the autopilot disconnect button and thus defeat this feature?

Piper has gone Airbus.

Mike C.

[quote="Mike Cholas"

I wonder what happens if the computer attitude input source goes wrong and it tries to "level" you to an unusual attitude based on bad input?


Couldn't the panicked pilot press and hold down the autopilot disconnect button and thus defeat this feature?

Piper has gone Airbus.

Mike C.[/quote]

The M500 and I am guessing the M600 have 3 ADHRS and 3 ADC's, the 2 feeding the AP cross check and won't engage AP with a miscompare. You still have to be a pilot if you are getting miscompare data and figure out which one is lying.

You can defeat the envelope protection or automatic AP engagement by one of at least 7 ways, the easiest is just pressing the red AP button on the yoke.

Where Piper differs from Airbus is that in addition to easily turning off the automation, the flight controls are still hardwired, so if you make an input the plane will always do what you tell it to do.

I have not seen the M600. The spar is bigger and in the same general location, I have heard that it is neither better or worse than the M500. The spar is one of those things you get used to when you fly a P46. Some described getting in as the Malibu wiggle, and I can testify hanging out at the Malibu conventions that there are some big boys flying these birds. The first time I got in, I seemed clumsy, about the 3rd time, I forgot about it. Totally a non-issue for me, but I am reasonably nimble. As far as comparison, I really do not feel that the TBM without the pilots door, PC12, or CJ1/M2 are really much easier to get in and out. All these planes ask the pilot to be reasonably athletic for the price of admission.

Just something that I heard from one of the non-Piper development team members, on the technology. They went through the complete accident record of the PA46/P46 and reviewed the likely causes of each and how tech could have made a difference. They felt that over 90% of PA46/P46T fatals would not have occurred if the pilot was flying this technology.

That is pretty impressive, and maybe a guess, but I would agree. Even with the switch to the G1000 in 2009, there has not been a single Mirage or Meridian fatal in a G1000 aircraft, with the G1000 now representing almost half of the P46T fleet. The M500 is going to have one of the best safety records in the single engine turbine world, and I make that prediction from studying the P46 record, and how pilots have traditionally killed themselves in this aircraft. The record is heavily weighted towards LOC in IMC, CFIT, botched approaches, tangling with TS. Couple that with the fact that the P46 is about the most forgiving and docile planes you can fly. It flies more like a DA40 on steroids than a high performance plane.

I'm looking at that photo wondering how you get in that pilots seat.

Apparently, sales are better if you make the pilot subservient to the automation in the plane.

Mike C.

This implies that a miscompare disables not only the AP, but also the envelope protection and LVL button.

So the pilot instantly goes from having two agreeing AIs, an AP he can use, envelope protection, and the LVL button, to now having two disagreeing AIs and nothing else.

The surprise factor for that is quite high.


The automation did not, in reality, reduce the required competence and currency of the pilot. But it may contribute to complacency and lack of currency.


Yes, no alternate law.

What I meant by "going Airbus" is the philosophy that the automation corrects the pilot, taking control of the plane if the human does something the computer thinks is a "mistake". Airbus (and now Piper to some extent) believe the computer is more reliable than the human.

Mike C.

The automation did not reduce the full skill set required to successfully handle the plane in every situation.

But it may greatly reduced the frequency of situations where lack of skill has a penalty. That's still a win.