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23 Dec 2025, 19:22 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 08:01 
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Mark,

Thanks great share. What I see is someone moving from one high performence aircraft to another with different equipment in each. Makes being proficient in all uses very hard. I have the same problem and do what you are planning today. Go out and practice what I'm rusty with not what I do every day. I applaud your desire to learn and share the warts we all have so that we can all learn. Can't wait for the next vid!

Where's Olivia by the way? She'd have straightened you out.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 08:08 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
Mark,


Where's Olivia by the way? She'd have straightened you out.


College. Cal Poly. She spends all her timing keeping John square :rofl:

Plus she would have no idea what a kln90b is!

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 08:44 
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I thought you and Don Kaye used KLN's as boat anchors, or seaplane as the case may be.
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 10:21 
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Mark thank you so much for this post. This is how we all learn. I love your analytical mind.
Look forward to reading what you think you should have done differently.
I know I have been disoriented a few times flying IMC approaches. It's typically something different that sets it off: much steeper than usual descent and therefore too fast, was one of them, 360 request from ATC on long final was another and a buttonology event, like yours, was a third.
I had passengers each time, none of them realized what was going on.
Screaming through my mind each time was: aviate, aviate, aviate. So I disconnected the AP, and hand flew the gauges (glass). With hindsight, I think I would now do this differently. I would engage the autopilot straight and level and then tell, not ask, tower what I'm doing. That fact that you mention there was a red cell on the missed makes me think you were considering the same thing. It was you who told me to do the approach in to Marquette on the other side of the published pattern and the red cells "since there is so much room and nothing in the way"
I am humbled when multi thousand hour pilots like you, with every rating under the sun have these kinds of events.
Thanks for sharing and I'll fly with you any time anywhere any wheater.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 11:24 
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If I may offer another option for a possible miss. Rather than locking your mind into the "I really don't want to miss due to weather", tell approach or tower "if we miss, we will need an immediate turn for weather".


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 12:44 
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Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
The alternate missed approach suggestions are good. No doubt that is the prudent course of action. The mind works in mysterious ways. I was pretty saturated and as simple as alternative missed instructions would be to request it still requires you to have enoug spare cycles to think it through. I didn't want to spend time on stuff I wasn't committed too. If I had decided to go missed it would have been a no brainer.

I will also say that we practice misses all the time from the missed approach point. Pretty rare to practice them from an unstablized approach simply because you work so hard to stabilize your approach. Missing because of an unstable approach feels different and to some extent destabilizing itself simply because you never practice it. This may be another reason I was more committed than I should have been to complete the approach. I think had I gotten to the MAP a miss would have been consistent with my training and felt normal.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 13:41 
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The most interesting part of this video is the reliance and use of external non-certified devices used in the cockpit of a JET that truly enhances situational awareness, brings weather (albeit XM) to the cockpit, much better approach plates WITH geo-referenced overlays.

I use my iPad as a backup to my Apex system as well as the Mooney (which has the KLN90B, recently removed for a GTN750).

The FAA should and will soon have virtually no choice, but to recognize that the time required to certify a device is way behind the speed of improvement from these and cockpit devices.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 13:44 
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Agreed Michael. Knock knock FAA? Anyone there? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 18:02 
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I don't think I've ever had a flight where there wasn't at least one little thing I messed up on or wished I would have done different. I don't fly but one airplane instead of the multiple you jump in. I don't see how you or most of the guys who fly multiple airplanes do it. I can see why you always travel with the Garmin and the IPad. At least there is something familiar or the same on every flight. You were pushing buttons and fiddling with tons of stuff on the video and it looked like an old RMI dancing around to the left which would have been a total distraction. Your course indicator wasn't slaved either, was it?

When you knew stuff wasn't right, to me you did the right thing and that was to take control of the airplane and fly it. Tons of "what ifs" as there always are. You're a pilot and you flew the airplane and recognized that's what you needed to do and it all worked out plus you have a lesson for the next time. Have a memory like an elephant.

Thanks for sharing the experience and remember you're the guy who gets to fly cool jets all by yourself!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2016, 11:32 
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Cool video the only thing is seemed like actual touchdown occurred somewhat past the 1000 FT mark, I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2016, 11:46 
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Thanks a ton for sharing Mark. Most all of us have been there. Humbling learning event. No bent metal. End of a 6hr day, SP, explains a lot. Almost time to go on guard. My GDL/iPad saved my bacon not too long ago when the HSI decided to do a subtle 20 degree TU. That stuff really helps. I'm not much of an AP guy on approach which tends to keep my eyes peeled on everything. And my HSI you have to manually set on course. Big change from over 250 hrs behind a G1000.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2016, 11:48 
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Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Special passenger today.

9 passengers including 4 little hockey players. I felt the most pressure for an inanimate object! Would a been a hell of a crash thread! :lol:

Actually shot a GPS in actual. Worked perfectly this time :woot:


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2016, 14:57 
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Nice! The Stanley cup. How cool is that?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2016, 19:08 
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That trophy needs a bigger plane :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2016, 17:19 
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Did the insurance company know... hate to think what that thing might be worth!

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