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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2014, 21:54 
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Joined: 03/17/08
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Todd,

I will not try to talk you out of anything, but I will tell you why I have an F-1 Rocket instead of a GIII or a Lancair Legacy.. I have always known what my next airplane would be, but I see myself at the end of the S/E experimental road with my Rocket.

It all boils down to the envelope.... For me, a single engine airplane must be capable of a survivable off airport landing. My Rocket has a 50 kt stall speed and is very comfortable at a 70 kt final approach speed flaring to a three point touchdown in the very low 60's. A 50 kt touchdown will be tail-first and then slam the mains on very hard, which might be fine in an off airport situation.....

The Glasair and Lancair have 70+ stall speeds and going into the field in the 80+ knot range. The difference in total energy between a 60 knot crash and a 80 knot crash is probably twice. If you throw in a 10 knot headwind, you go from a 50 knot accident to a 70 knot accident, an even bigger difference.... The retractable gear is a plus in some situations off airport and deserves some credit, but the real determining factor in survivability is groundspeed at impact.....

The next thing is wing contamination, The Glasair and Lancair have very little tolerance for any ice at all. The airfoil on my EVO Rocket is a near laminar flow design, but it is so overwinged, and over tailed, that it handles ice remarkably well for an inadvertent encounter. (I dont fly in ice, but we have it...)

The Rocket is, for me, the best compromise between stall speed and cruise speed.... If it was any faster, the ride would be unacceptable. It rides pretty hard in turbulence, especially with an CG towards aft. The only solution for that would be a turbo, or a supercharger, and fly higher where lower IAS would yield a higher TAS.

I have considered it, and there is an F-1 Rocket with a supercharger that I considered, but when I analyzed it, it is no faster, and burns more fuel down low, and when I look at the reward ratio, it just isnt worth the complexity....

So that is my rationale, yours maybe different. The GIII is a very nice flying airplane and very fast, but when it quits, you better have your A game because it will be a wild ride.

I have experienced a total engine failure in my Rocket and ended up on a wet grass runway. It was a total non-event....

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Doug Rozendaal
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Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2014, 21:58 
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Joined: 08/07/08
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Company: Retired Northrup/ Grumman/OCSD
Location: Granbury, TX (0TX1)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
Greg,

What is it?


Turbine Legend, a friend/neighbor that has a Baron, Glasair and small copter has been trying to purchase one for several months now. Walter (725 HP) M601 powered, the first couple he looked at had pre-purchase inspection issues. I think he may have purchased one but it isn't here yet. Can't wait to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2014, 22:24 
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Doug,

Thanks for that info. Will your Rocket do at least 210 knots cruise at 10-12k?

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2014, 23:39 
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Joined: 03/17/08
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Location: KMCW
Aircraft: B55 PII,F-1,L-2,OTW,
I run 2300 Rpms, wide open throttle, 13.5 GPH and I see from 203 to 207 ktas at the optimum altitude, usually 8 or 9K depending on the barometric pressure.

If I run it at 2500 and let her eat about 14.5 to 15 it will do 210 or better most days....

The legs get short at that fuel flow... 52 gallons total....

It really shines at 17,000 eastbound with some wind, 198 KTAS on 10 GPH....

Lots of baggage space, but the backseat is for small people and the heat in back is marginal, but I fly solo 90+%..

No friends you know......


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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Doug Rozendaal
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Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 00:11 
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Doug, you have a fine nose for airplanes sir!

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 00:41 
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Tim,

Thanks for the data. That is no deal to me. You can build one heck of an IO-580 Lycoming that will make 200 HP at 15k for under $50k. It will do a BSFC of .40 or less easily. Granted, the turbine is cool, but $100k+ for a low-power, fuel sucking, and unproven turbine is nuts.


Todd,

The TP-100 is based on the engine core from the TJ-100 which was designed for the UAV market and light airplane market. Specifically self launched gliders and the like. As such it meets the needs and is really light (the TJ-100 if I recall is 40lbs and the TP-100 is about 120lbs). So, as much as I like it, it is not a good fit for powered aircraft.

Run the numbers for a self launched glider, ten minutes of power is about 15 Gal which is 105lbs plus 120 for the engine is 225lbs. This is about 100lbs lighter then the installed weight of an IO-360.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 07:28 
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Doug,

That is very respectable for a fixed gear plane. Yours is very nice looking! Anyone putting IO-580's in them with 380HP to get more power up high? I want speed and as much range as possible. I have a decked out Bonanza I can use that does 170 knots on 12 GPH or less with two people and bags. If I can't get at least another 40-50 knots faster than the Bonanza I figure I might as well fly it.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 08:20 
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Joined: 11/19/12
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Company: North Air Flite
Location: Greenbush MN
Aircraft: 80 V35B
Username Protected wrote:
Greg,

What is it?


It's a friends Turbine Legend.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 08:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
Greg,

Where do you see it listed for sale?


I don't think he has it listed yet. I can PM you his number.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 08:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
Doug,

That is very respectable for a fixed gear plane. Yours is very nice looking! Anyone putting IO-580's in them with 380HP to get more power up high? I want speed and as much range as possible. I have a decked out Bonanza I can use that does 170 knots on 12 GPH or less with two people and bags. If I can't get at least another 40-50 knots faster than the Bonanza I figure I might as well fly it.


There are some IO-550 powered Rockets around but they are very little if any faster... I think the issue is that even with the tuned top induction, a -540 with cold air induction breathes better than the -550, and it might be that the pitot cowl gets the air into the fuel servo more efficiently....

I am going to be due for an overhaul in the next couple years and I have been contemplating what I will do then. I have never overhauled an airplane, I have always traded long before the engine was due, but as I mentioned previously, I see no place to move up to, and I have a great airplane, so I guess I will overhaul it.... I have looked at some of the new cylinders that are being introduced, but they won't fit in my cowling....

The EVO Rocket is a high aspect ration airplane, so respiration and displacement are the key, every inch of M.P. I can recover is good for 3.5 KTAS... And a 580 would drag in more air on every revolution, allowing me to maintain the same horse power at a higher altitude with the same result....

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Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
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Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 10:48 
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Todd:

what you really need is a Radial Rocket:

http://radialrocket.com/rg_page.html#specs

literally bullet proof Russian radial, fast cruise, and best of all looks like a P-47 when in flight.

If I ever built a plane this would be it.

RAS


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 11:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
Todd:

what you really need is a Radial Rocket:

http://radialrocket.com/rg_page.html#specs

literally bullet proof Russian radial, fast cruise, and best of all looks like a P-47 when in flight.

If I ever built a plane this would be it.

RAS



That is pretty cool, but it is only about 30 knots faster than my Bonanza burning a lot more fuel. If I'm going to burn more fuel I want to go real fast. I keep coming back to the red Lancair. It will turn an honest 220 knots on 15 GPH up in the mid teens.

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The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 14:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
Todd:

what you really need is a Radial Rocket:

http://radialrocket.com/rg_page.html#specs

literally bullet proof Russian radial, fast cruise, and best of all looks like a P-47 when in flight.

If I ever built a plane this would be it.

RAS



That is pretty cool, but it is only about 30 knots faster than my Bonanza burning a lot more fuel. If I'm going to burn more fuel I want to go real fast. I keep coming back to the red Lancair. It will turn an honest 220 knots on 15 GPH up in the mid teens.


If high stall speeds do not bother you, then why not a Lancair IV-P. Flown within envelope, it's a fine aircraft. Honest 275knot machine. About 250K buys a really nice example.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 15:29 
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[youtube]http://youtu.be/dELyeH0I4Xo[/youtube]

Here you go!

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me out of buying a Glasair III
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2014, 15:44 
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Joined: 02/18/12
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Username Protected wrote:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/dELyeH0I4Xo[/youtube]

Here you go!


Looked this up on flightaware and found a flight from Billings MT to Olathe KS that took 3 hours and 7 minutes. It averaged about 250KTS/290MPH for the trip. It says the actual distance flown was 882sm.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N917 ... /KBIL/KIXD


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