11 May 2025, 21:31 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 13:49 |
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Joined: 06/28/09 Posts: 14372 Post Likes: +9497 Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: The only way Beech will survive is to change their current offerings and introduce a game-changer - composite 6 seater with A36 load capacity and at a price point that seriously threatens the upper end Cirrus market place. If Cirrus is first to the market with a 6 seater - it might be over for Beech Why? Aluminum works fine, is easier to repair, is strong and light and has stood the test of time. What about the Cirrus is so far out in front? The G1000 perspective in the Cirrus is not even as advanced as my G500 + GTN 750. Why use a keyboard when you can touch the screen? Who cares about a stick shaker and a computer that won't let you bank more than 30 degrees. Not me... I'll take the Bo.
_________________ http://calipilot.com atp/cfii
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 13:49 |
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Joined: 11/01/08 Posts: 5007 Post Likes: +1634 Location: KAVQ, Tucson AZ
Aircraft: Sold em all@72
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Username Protected wrote: Who needs these microwaves when my oven will work just fine! Did you throw your oven away when you bought a microwave? How does your Thanksgiving turkey taste microwaved? Is it possible there may be room for both? Nice Tracy.....
And the day that non-pilots can get in a (GA) cirus or anything else is the day I sit down in front of the TV and get fat (it will likely happen, but not in my life-time). I really like all these predictions, know what the good news is...no-body will ever know if your right or wrong or care.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 13:58 |
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Joined: 09/12/11 Posts: 682 Post Likes: +354 Location: Central California
Aircraft: Navajo /7GCBC/TTX
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Username Protected wrote: I believe the Crandall is a ficticious character created by the Jeff's to keep BT entertaining  Actually, I think J.C. Is a fisherman with the right bait To get BTer's to bite. In the beginning I used to bite and get angry. Now I just read the posts with amusement and smile. J.C. Makes good points with just different people skills then some. Once I figured out his angle somewhat, I think he's very interesting and intelligent. Don't get mad or verbally confrontational, step back and look at the picture. Otherwise, some may want to crawl though their screen........ Rick
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:01 |
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Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13390 Post Likes: +7464 Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
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Username Protected wrote: I sure like the added capability of my twin. As much as I liked the Cirrus, I prefer the twin for the number 1 plane. *snore* *snore* Huh? What? Who? I'm sorry Jessie, I missed your story about your "twin engine airplane and how safe it is" or something or other.......  I go to breakfast and three pages go by! I'm off my game...
_________________ Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:10 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7295 Post Likes: +4789 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: Have you ever shot the approach into Aspen? It's a favorite at SIMCOM. My last time flying that approach was a zero engine approach in the MU2...
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:12 |
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Joined: 10/13/11 Posts: 147 Post Likes: +69
Aircraft: F33A
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Two thoughts: If a Cirrus is so "non-crashable", why is the fatal accident rate higher than all GA? Second, if you wonder about the design allowing an aircraft be able to last decades (like most Beech products), take a look at the hinges on the rudder. Basic Cessna Skyhawk design. The holes in the stamped bracket begin to elongate in short order. I wonder what happens when a rudder comes loose at Cirrus SR22 speeds. 
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:13 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 12130 Post Likes: +3031 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: The only way Beech will survive is to change their current offerings and introduce a game-changer - composite 6 seater with A36 load capacity and at a price point that seriously threatens the upper end Cirrus market place. If Cirrus is first to the market with a 6 seater - it might be over for Beech Why? Aluminum works fine, is easier to repair, is strong and light and has stood the test of time. What about the Cirrus is so far out in front? The G1000 perspective in the Cirrus is not even as advanced as my G500 + GTN 750. Why use a keyboard when you can touch the screen? Who cares about a stick shaker and a computer that won't let you bank more than 30 degrees. Not me... I'll take the Bo.
Adam,
What makes the Cirrus so far out in front? -- Cheaper -- Better fit and finish. Check the newer models, not older ragged versions of either plane -- Perceived safety. Crash cage, four point harness, optional air bags, chute.. -- Engine options, including TAT from the factory -- Better full fuel useful load. The recent upgrade in useful load actually makes the practical for 600 miles -- Perception of simpler systems and fewer systems, fixed gear, combined mixture/prop control -- New advances and model changes every few years -- They listen to the mechanics/customers. Each generation has made MX slighty easier, even if in minimal ways (e.g. changes in the G2 for chute/cutter replacement, changes in wheel fairing mounts between G2 and G3). -- Cirrus goes after new pilots -- Cirrus has an optional training program which takes pilots through how it will actually be used for XC flights organized around the plane, systems.... -- Cirrus has the market perception of being "cool" anywhere except around grumpy owners of other brands that are jealous of the Cirrus success. 
That will do to start.
Tim
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:15 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7295 Post Likes: +4789 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: The 'aviator' market is small, the 'pissed off at the TSA' market is potentially enormous.
That is the number one, most important concept that everyone in aviation and here at BT can come to terms with right now. That is the future of airplanes. Well... if the "future of airplanes" becomes too big, then the TSA may get to change the rules and eliminate any advantage. So... I wouldn't use it as a sole motivation.
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:19 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 12130 Post Likes: +3031 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: Two thoughts: If a Cirrus is so "non-crashable", why is the fatal accident rate higher than all GA? Second, if you wonder about the design allowing an aircraft be able to last decades (like most Beech products), take a look at the hinges on the rudder. Basic Cessna Skyhawk design. The holes in the stamped bracket begin to elongate in short order. I wonder what happens when a rudder comes loose at Cirrus SR22 speeds.  Look at the pilots. Same answer as always, pilots are likely to kill more planes/people than anything else. Further, there is a perception by many that the Cirrus is used by more XC hardcore pilots than other planes. Especially when compared to the C172s of the world. The problem is that there really is not enough data to really make statistical comparison. Based on assumptions you make the data can be shown to prove anything you want. As for losing the rudder in the Cirrus, fly gentle circles and burn off as much fuel as possible. Then pull power back and pull the chute. Tim
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:24 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 12130 Post Likes: +3031 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: I am at a loss as to why what I write pisses some people off so much. If I was truly a nuisance around here the Jeff's would have banned me long ago. Because you make broad statements in an absolute manor which pushes against their preconceptions. And you are not afraid to back it up. Overall I like your posts and think you tend to be very objective and know the material well before you post. You also know yourself (I think based on reading your posts) which also pisses people off because you are less likely to live the collective delusion. Tim
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus is so far out in front....... Posted: 16 May 2013, 14:25 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 12130 Post Likes: +3031 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: If a Cirrus is so "non-crashable", why is the fatal accident rate higher than all GA? This is not the case http://www.cirruspilots.org/Content/CirrusSafety.aspx - as always, hard to compare apples to oranges.
No, the horror of data which does not match my preconceptions.
Tim
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