I'll admit I can't afford an Eclipse. I've admitted as much, what, three times in this thread? Yes it is my brother's plane. Sorry. But I have done more then "sit" in one. I've taken lessons with an instructor, flown cross country, but don't take my word for it. Here is a quote from the owner who flies it several hundred hours a year and has been doing so since the first year Eclipse released the jets.

That is straight out of a very experienced Eclipse owner's mouth. Not "just" the brother.

Hope this helps. I have nothing against the Mustang and have said nothing but praise for it. It's apples and oranges. Like comparing a Bo with a Cirrus. One is fast and roomy. The other is faster and less roomy. They are all good. They all fly well. I like them all. They all provide us a lot of fun. Just like this forum.

I like you too Jason. This is also a lot of fun and it would not be the same without you. Let me buy you lunch some day!

Thank you for sharing your take.

So, all you have on me is I said "you won't get to 41K' in an Eclipse" when what I meant was "you won't get to 41K' in an Eclipse because A: ATC will never clear you in time to make it worth it or B: You will rarely have a mission making it worth climbing to 41K' in an Eclipse".

Right?

That's it?

Ron, we're comparing airplanes. I don't need to own one to want to compare numbers and make comments. Correct me if I'm wrong you won't hurt my feelings. But jumping into a thread and telling everyone "they're not allowed to voice an opinion if they don't own one" is ridiculous. Don't be so defensive about the Eclipse. I don't care about an Eclipse. I do love comparing airplanes though. It's a forum.

OK Crandall, that was a thread killer if I ever seen one. <g>

OK Crandall, that was a thread killer if I ever seen one. <g>

Jason, my friend. I was going to quit posting on this thread because I felt I was taking away your happiness and that is the last thing I would want to do.

If I have offended you by pointing out errors please accept my humble apology.

Please reread my threads. Some have asked you to back off, I have only ask you to give false claims a rest. Please reread. I have not asked you to stop and I certainly have not "told anyone they're not allowed to voice an opinion." You are 100% right. That would be ridiculous.

Please note my post just prior to yours. I said, "I like you too Jason. This is also a lot of fun and it would not be the same without you. Let me buy you lunch some day!

Thank you for sharing your take."

I mean that. I'd love to buy you lunch and show my friendship, and I do thank you again for sharing your take.

All the best! -Ron

Is this Brokeback talk?

Back to VLJs for a minute, Controller.com has 28 listings for Mustangs for sale. Many are new to be delivered positions, but there are several for sale and some partnership/fractional interests.

Also interesting is Twin & Turbine has an article from a couple that purchases and flies a Mustang. They cite the plane gets better than book numbers, but the only example they give of performance (the only one I see) is 320 knots and 75 gallons per hour in the high 30s. They have 300 hours in the plane now. I have the Mustang operating summaries from when I flew it. I'll re-look at it.

Wonder why so many of these are on the market.

Best,

Dave

There's no 360 in a CS

Guys. I don't care about the damn Eclipse either. This is all just "internet". It's hard for me to get my point across sometimes and I don't use smileys' properly and every gets more worked up more than they ever should.

I apologize for all the "uncomfortableness".

Jason, my friend. I was going to quit posting on this thread because I felt I was taking away your happiness and that is the last thing I would want to do.

If I have offended you by pointing out errors please accept my humble apology.

Please reread my threads. Some have asked you to back off, I have only ask you to give false claims a rest. Please reread. I have not asked you to stop and I certainly have not "told anyone they're not allowed to voice an opinion." You are 100% right. That would be ridiculous.

Please note my post just prior to yours. I said, "I like you too Jason. This is also a lot of fun and it would not be the same without you. Let me buy you lunch some day!

Thank you for sharing your take."

I mean that. I'd love to buy you lunch and show my friendship, and I do thank you again for sharing your take.

All the best! -Ron

Here's my theory on that. Little jets do not deliver any "bang for the buck". They exist solely for "sex appeal".

A PC12 can fly from Vegas to Atlanta non stop in just over 5 hours no wind and haul everything you want. What's the downside? It has a propeller and looks funny. You can't do the same flight in a Mustang but for some reason people still paid millions and lot's more to operate them to get less utility.

Now that the economy is in the shitter, everyone has to put their "sex appeal" needs on the sideline and be more practical.

I was out with a friend the other night and he was telling a girl (hot and dumb) he just met that I was a pilot and we just got back from a trip blah, blah. The first thing out of her mouth in response to this was "does your plane have jets or propellers cuz I don't like those little planes with propellers they're like toys he he he".

I have a friend who bought a CJ to fly back and forth from Atlanta to Destin. That's about 150NM. I said, "why don't you get something like a PC12 or something". He said "nah, I'm a jet guy". Can't argue with that.

Jason, thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

Jesse, what can I say. I never saw Brokeback. But I've never jumped in wood chipper either. Some places you don't want to go.

Seriously I'll tell you my story and totally hijack this post...

Terminal illness in my family has cut my normal annual flying by 75%. Beech Talk has really helped me through this very difficult time. I'm living vicariously through these posts and I appreciate this website and the kindness the participants have shown.

The last thing I want to do is foment any manner of unkindness.

When the guys first heard about my wife's condition I received so many prayers and well-wishes that I was embarrassed for monopolizing the thread "Beechtalk welcomes its 8,000th member!"

Doug Castro, Steve Miles, Dean Whitehorn, Jay Passmore, Jeff Carneal, Tracy Barrus, and Arlen Stauffer immediately let me know they were wishing my wife well and praying for her. They said, "you just picked up 8000 more people praying for your wife."

I'm sure the posts would have continued but being new to BT and not knowing the customs, I asked them to stop because, as I said, everyone has their problems. I did not feel worthy that so much time was being spent by so many people just to help me.

I had no idea that this is what BT'ers do. They rush help any BT member with a need.

I began to read posts like, "Calling All Angels - BT Brother Stuck in Paradise," "Urgent VAC Mission Fayetteville, NC to Birmingham, AL," Hangar office (aka: Man Cave) destroyed by winter cold," and "BeechTalk Brother Down."

BT'ers are people who care. You don't find enough of that in the world. That is what I want to be a part of. Not antagonism.

If it were not for people who take an active part in posting on BT all of this would not be possible.

Look at Jason's record. He's posted 6500+ times. That must be close to a record. That is more then even Max, or Lance, or even Jeff and Jeff the founders. Jason is why this forum works.

I have nothing but appreciation for all the guys and gals that participate here.

And now...

Yup, Singles ARE safer than twins especially when they're Supercharged and use MMO

Dave

I was looking at the Mustang last fall with a friend of mine and at that time the Cessna folks were claiming over 400 sold. So it goes to say that a few will be on the market plus the speculators that take early positions on delveries to flip it later.

The fellow BTer ending up buying the Phenom 100 instead and a couple hundred hours into it and he's very happy with the Phenom. Flys it 41k pretty regularly.

Gary

Thanks Gary. I don't know much about how that plane is built or the quality.

The guys selling the Eclipse partnership had a Phenom in their hanger. Said the fuel burn was higher and it was a bit under powered. Gave an example of departing ten minutes ahead of the one in the hanger for the same destination and it never catching them. Of course, all anecdotal. Sure would be. Nice to find objective, third party information.

Dave

I'm With Jason on the philosophy of VLJ's and LJ's. I think they're basically there for egos and pride and such. When it comes to mission capability, efficiency and overall performance, turboprops beat them. You have to get into the mid size jet class coupled with longer range missions before jets make sense operationally.

But don't get me wrong....I would like one (but it would be for the reasons mentioned). If it's my money flying out the door it's probably going to be a single turboprop or older KA.