That makes one wonder what other limitations and rules they break.

Mike C.

Possibly second to 91.211(b)(1)(ii)…

1290 lbs of FOD? That's a lot of FOD! I can understand a screw or rock on the ramp here or there but 1/2 a ton and change?
In all seriousness, thanks for the picture!

Possibly second to 91.211(b)(1)(ii)…

Would you want to buy one of these old birds from a company like that? esp if the extra 1000 mostly resides in the cabin? That is stress that the engineers didn’t factor into their fatigue calculations. Any plane will fly over gross, but you are entering test pilot territory. Usually works out fine, until it doesn’t.

I don’t know the WB on the CJ3 well, but even with a full cabin, I assume you’re still below max zero fuel weight? So my concern isn’t the stress on the cabin/spar point, but the gear and attach points?

Would you want to buy one of these old birds from a company like that? esp if the extra 1000 mostly resides in the cabin? That is stress that the engineers didn’t factor into their fatigue calculations. Any plane will fly over gross, but you are entering test pilot territory. Usually works out fine, until it doesn’t.

I would recommend people not feel comforted by your statement. Not being a pilot or engineer, you haven't thought this through. Weight affects a tremendous number of things on an airplane, not just if the wings will fall off.

Just considering takeoff:

What are your V speeds?

How much runway are you going to need?

If you abort, will the brakes take the extra energy?

What is your second segment climb performance?

Are you going to be able to make the SID gradient?

What damage are you doing to your tires just taxiing overweight?

Are the flaps going to take the extra load?

I'd recommend steering clear of any operator who thinks flying 1000 lbs over gross is reasonable. If they are willing to violate such an important limitation, what else are they doing that erodes safety?

Mike C.

Oh, great, another thing for Chip and Mike to argue about for eternity.........

Per AI, depending on empty weight and model, zero fuel weight could limit cabin weight for pax, cargo and luggage to as little as 1710 lbs. A charter could hit that easy if not paying attention. That seems a worst case scenario with some planes having lower empty weight.

I agree with Mike C for all of those reasons. I'm not saying flying overweight is going to directly lead to a crash or accident, however the accident reports are littered with pilots disregarding weight limits, checklists, weather minima.

This week I am making one of my clients airline a family member on the CJ2 as they would put us over max zero fuel weight. We can stay below max takeoff weight by leaving fuel behind, but ZFW is an important structural limit with the bending moment around the wings/fuselage.

Fly like a professional and stack the odds in your favor.

Seems possible.

CJ3+ MGTOW is 13,870 lbs, ZFW is 10,510 lbs, fuel is 4710 lbs.

My plane has 3000 lbs to reach ZFW, so I can take NFL linemen if I want (if they will fit...).

Mike C.

Not much to argue about here. Mike is completely right.

Not much to argue about here. Mike is completely right.

My plane left the factory at 11,200 lbs ZFW. This would give me 2000 lbs, 220 lbs per seat.

But I have an SB applied which increase the ZFW to 12,200 lbs. This gives me 3000 lbs, 330 lbs per seat. I could load NFL linemen into the plane, if they could fit.

The SB doesn't change anything about the structure of the airplane but lowers Vmo from 292 KIAS to 276 KIAS, a 16 KIAS loss. That seems weird to me, not sure how Vmo and ZFW are related, but that's the change in the SB.

I am thinking of uninstalling the SB to get back to 11,200 lbs ZFW and Vmo back to 292 KIAS. I've never been over 11,200 lbs ZFW and it would be nice to have a little more Vmo on descents. When I get a digital AP, that will probably knock at least 100 lbs more off my empty weight making the lower ZFW just that much more reasonable.

The original SB required replacing airspeed indicators, overspeed switches, modifying air data boxes, and replacing a placard. Since my airplane upgrade removes all that stuff and has digitally programmed airspeed and overspeed parameters, all I need to do is reprogram the numbers in my Garmin stuff and replace the placard. So I am on the hunt for a pair of the original speed placards, PN 6500181-62.

Mike C.