Agreed. Apples and oranges comparison.

Wrong metric. Cost per *mile* counts in a traveling machine. Still more in the turbine, but less severe than per hour. But, oh the differences. Pressurized in the flight levels with turbine quiet and smoothness vs. cannula or mask in the teens with piston noise and vibration.

You get what you pay for. Sometimes.

They (p210n silver eagle and sr22t) cost really close to the same...in acquisition and cost of ownership... seems like a fair comparison

[/quote]What Eric said. The people I know that own Cirruses want new and want the chute.[/quote]


I understand wanting new and the chute... it is a very attractive package... and I doubt most of those owners even know that there is an option at that price point that will out perform the cirrus in virtually every way... and they still may or may not make the same choice....

Well, I don’t post much, but thought I’d chime in. I’ve got Beech in the blood having flown them for 15 years, but just sold my second Bonanza and bought an SR22T. Back in 2005, I bought into an old Debonair with a couple of partners, stepping up from a 182. Loved the Deb, fast, handled great, and probably the best combo of cheap/fast/fun/useful of anything I’ve owned. We sold the Deb in 2014 and bought a 1985 A36TN with tips and the whole shebang (or lipstick as described above). Great airplane, loved the club seats in the back (at least my wife and kids did!!), A/C made me feel like I was high on the hog even though we had to chase gremlins with it fairly regularly. It ate up runway despite all kinds of tweaks and I couldn’t safely and confidently operate it out of KPAO (2400ft) while loaded up, so lost a lot of the convenience/utility of the fifth and sixth seat. It was roughly triple cost of the Deb to buy and to fly.

Sold the A36 this year, and my partners and I bought a 2016 G5 SR22T FIKI bird. We’ve only had it a few months, but so far we LOVE the plane, even though it’s smaller inside, etc. Performs great even at gross, modern panel (G1000 Perspective) plus a great autopilot (GFC700), A/C that really works, so I’d say the pilot experience is just head and shoulders above that of our old Bo, even though the Bo did a few things better from a raw stick and rudder perspective. The parachute brings my wife comfort, frankly it brings me comfort, too, as I now have two small kids and am in the sunset of my 40s (plus I also have 3500+ skydives over the last 25 years so why shouldn’t my airplane have one??). I flew to LA a few weeks ago making 185kts TAS at 17.5k...roughly as fast as the A36TN. The newer Cirrus was roughly double the cost of the older A36TN to buy, and so far about on par hourly to fly, if a tad cheaper. We shall see after a few years.

Now, add the redundancy of two batteries and two alternators and FIKI, all designed in from the start, and it’s just a better/safer instrument platform in my opinion. I’m a weather scaredy-cat and have very little hard IMC experience (mostly the marine layer here in the SF Bay Area), but I hope to cautiously expand my weather comfort and ability with a more capable airframe over the coming years. The basic scan with the G1000 and backup electric instruments in the Cirrus is vastly more intuitive, vs a mishmash of an Aspen, steam gauges, backup vacuum, standby AI on the copilot side, ... at least so far in my transition training and instrument practice, I’m very impressed.

Could we have bought an older turboprop...perhaps? The OpEx really scares me, but I’d love to burn kerosene. I think I’d only want to step up into one if I could afford a more modern and integrated platform, and that’s not in the financial cards anytime soon.

I miss my Bonanza, but love the Cirrus.

What Eric said. The people I know that own Cirruses want new and want the chute.[/quote]


I understand wanting new and the chute... it is a very attractive package... and I doubt most of those owners even know that there is an option at that price point that will out perform the cirrus in virtually every way... and they still may or may not make the same choice....[/quote]

Not sure who you mean by "most of those owners" but I'd guess the vast majority of Cirrus owners understand there are other options, including some with better performance - but they come with tradeoffs.

And not every Cirrus owner bought new. I owned two SR22s (a 2006 NA and a 2012 turbo) and I bought both lightly used and at a meaningful discount to new. I also wouldn't buy a $1M new SR22T but my first <2 year old one was $325K (back in 2008) and the second ended up being about $250K extra cash when I traded in the first. For those price points, the faster alternatives are way older and much higher opex or at least MX expense exposure. Those two SR22s were a really good fit for me at the time being affordable, predictable and easy to own and operate and had plenty of space for 2 adults and a dog.

I am now flying a Citation Mustang because we have 2 little kids and do a fair amount of 1500-2000 NM trips but I'd still happily recommend an SR22 for someone with a different mission.

I guess the other advantage is that it will always be easy to find partners in a Cirrus. Vs "hey fellas, who wants to partner with me on this Turbo Commander??" < Crickets >

So we're up to exactly one turboprop that fits the same niche of capability and operating cost, but it's a much, much different airplane experience, both for the pilot and passengers.

Cessnas are built like trucks with creature comforts added later, and the only safety device you get is a seatbelt. The newest one that exists is, what, 35 years old?

Cirruses are modern machines, with interiors, ergonomics, and creature comforts AND safety features of modern luxury cars.

Those are two very different ownership experiences. I still don't think the one who opts for the SR22 is going to seriously look at Silver Eagle very long.

I'm still curious why someone feels like stomping on puppies after a few hours trip in an SR20. What is so bad about it ?

I'll weigh in on this one. I considered the Silver Eagle for a very short time several years ago. A friend of mine owned one for a period and liked it for maybe a year or two until he didn't. Pressurization is attractive but it's got a VERY low pressure differential (3.4 psi). Speed is better but not by much (200-210 kts vs. 190 kts in the SR). I flew a C182 for quite awhile and always enjoyed it so I have no bones to pick with Cessnas. However, when I go back and consider a Silver Eagle again, there's very little that's attractive to me or my family to consider it. The panel, interior, cabin, seating and cockpit all feel very, very dated even if you throw in some Garmin glass. My wife and kids would all feel as though we took a huge step back from the SR and my solo missions wouldn't change much at all except that I wouldn't need to bother with the cannula. There's nothing that's compelling enough for me to genuinely consider it.

What I would consider in the tprop category is a move to a Jetprop or Meridian that I would definitely consider an upgrade to the SR. The speed difference would be significant, the pressurization would be very useful, the additional altitude would be nice and the added cabin space would be a step up. The challenge for me is that once you've been on a G1000 system for a period of time, it's difficult to consider operating anything less. There are no GX000 options for the Jetprop and in the Meridian, G1000 examples begin at about $1.2-$1.3M. I could own and operate a Jetprop for about 1.3-1.4X the all-in costs of my SR. A G1000 Meridian would run roughly 2X my all-in costs. Neither of those options would increase my range but would make the 600-800nm trips more reasonable than they are now. In short, they offer a step up in utility and incremental time savings from where I am now but at a rather steep upgrade in costs. I find it a bit difficult to justify at the moment but perhaps in a year or two the added $ won't mean as much. We shall see.

I don't understand the blue lever comment at all. What could be more simple than setting power with a big % power gauge on the MFD? It runs at 2500RPM all the time and you put the big lever to the % power you want. What's so confusing about that?

I would guess most don’t. But, the oldest Cirruses are 20 yrs old. Even the newest piston Cessna or Beech was designed 60 (at least) years ago. Big difference.

Off the topic a little, but relevant to the value equation, is the engine in the Cirrus. It’s still 1940’s technology. $1MM for that vintage technology? Not for me.

I have flown as a passenger in a G1 and have piloted all other versions of the SR22: G2, G3, G5 and G6 (Cirrus skipped the G4 in their marketing for some reason). I've never once had an issue with the automatic prop control. I know there was design change in the system, either from G1 to G2 or from G2 to G3.

Anyone who is considering the SR and has had prior experience with either the G1 or G2 series should take another look at a G3+ series. There has been a laundry list of improvements to the design over the past 20 years but the most substantial changes occurred from G2 to G3. It's absolutely night and day both from an avionics perspective and from an interior design and fit / finish perspective.

The issues that are mentioned with the automatic prop control are absolutely not an issue in the G3 and G5 I've owned. In the SR22T, you climb with throttle and mixture full forward and when leveling at cruise, you bring MP back to 30.5 and lean to the cyan marker (the system automatically shows you where to lean) and fine tune to get TIT at or below 1600. That's it. Done.

Full G600 with EIS is now approved for the Meridian. GFC600 is in the works. Once that is approved it is equal (possibly better) than the G1000.

I just finished (as in today) my G600/EIS/GFC600 upgrade in my TBM700C2. Gained 74lbs useful. My hangar mate with a TBM900 thinks it is a better package than his.

I would guess most don’t. But, the oldest Cirruses are 20 yrs old. Even the newest piston Cessna or Beech was designed 60 (at least) years ago. Big difference.

Off the topic a little, but relevant to the value equation, is the engine in the Cirrus. It’s still 1940’s technology. $1MM for that vintage technology? Not for me.

Full G600 with EIS is now approved for the Meridian. GFC600 is in the works. Once that is approved it is equal (possibly better) than the G1000.

I just finished (as in today) my G600/EIS/GFC600 upgrade in my TBM700C2. Gained 74lbs useful. My hangar mate with a TBM900 thinks it is a better package than his.