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16 Nov 2025, 04:37 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
This was supposed to be a fun... “what would you buy” thread!

Come on guys... play nice!!! :angel:


Who isn't playing nice? Is that the impression you're getting because you aren't reading the thread?


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
We typically work markets for our clients, and we haven’t had anyone hire us to buy a Phenom 100...

1. Which is it?

2. Is JetNet considered "amongst professionals"


Both, I have market knowledge of any popular aircraft, I can tell you for instance that you can’t buy a Phenom 100 for less than $1.7m

BUT... I don’t know IF you can buy one for $1.7m or if that would even be a reasonable offer... we would need to run the market to know that.

Yes, JetNet is an absolute necessity to do what we do. The value of JetNet is not values, though they are in a position to build that database... it’s just a new offering from them, so we’ll see how good the data is after a few years.

You could set up an aircraft sales firm and purchase a JetNet subscription.
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Last edited on 15 Nov 2017, 08:37, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:36 
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When I see bad info like the $1.3m number batted around it concerns me, the broker dealer community is very small to begin with... the guys who sell Phenom 100’s is a microcosm of that. If a buyer goes out and starts making $1.3m offers on 100’s it won’t take long before his name is mud and those guys won’t even return his calls.

One of the reasons we have such good relationships with broker / dealers is that we are not competitors, we bring them buyers, so they do tend to share info with us very openly.

The other reason is we bring them reasonable offers from qualified purchasers. A broker typically has an obligation to take all offers to the owner, the lowball offers just make the owner (broker’s client) mad.

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We ONLY represent buyers!


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Both, I have market knowledge of any popular aircraft, I can tell you for instance that you can’t but a Phenom 100 for less than $1.7m

BUT... I don’t know IF you can buy one for $1.7m or if that would even be a reasonable offer... we would need to run the market to know that.

Yes, JetNet is an absolute necessity to do what we do. The value of JetNet is not values, though they are in a position to build that database... it’s just a new offering from them, so we’ll see how good the data is after a few years.

You could set up an aircraft sales firm and purchase a JetNet subscription.

So you admit that as of right now JetNet does not have the knowledge you would have?

What good is JetNet if nobody posts their real sales prices in JetNet?

If your existence and knowledge is the key to obtaining aircraft at the proper market rate then wouldn't you consider it a threat to your job if JetNet did have accurate data?


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
If a buyer goes out and starts making $1.3m offers on 100’s it won’t take long before his name is mud and those guys won’t even return his calls.

One of the reasons we have such good relationships with broker / dealers is that we are not competitors, we bring them buyers, so they do tend to share info with us very openly.

The other reason is we bring them reasonable offers from qualified purchasers. A broker typically has an obligation to take all offers to the owner, the lowball offers just make the owner (broker’s client) mad.

Oh wow..... You guys are like the aircraft Mafia.

You're telling me brokers will refuse to sell an airplane to a qualified buyer that sees all the 100's sitting on the market because he's making offers lower than what the Aircraft Mafias mutually agreed to reasonable accept price?

You yourself have admitted here that nobody has asked you to buy a Phenom 100 for them. Maybe that's the case everywhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:44 
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
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Username Protected wrote:
Both, I have market knowledge of any popular aircraft, I can tell you for instance that you can’t but a Phenom 100 for less than $1.7m

BUT... I don’t know IF you can buy one for $1.7m or if that would even be a reasonable offer... we would need to run the market to know that.

Yes, JetNet is an absolute necessity to do what we do. The value of JetNet is not values, though they are in a position to build that database... it’s just a new offering from them, so we’ll see how good the data is after a few years.

You could set up an aircraft sales firm and purchase a JetNet subscription.

So you admit that as of right now JetNet does not have the knowledge you would have?

What good is JetNet if nobody posts their real sales prices in JetNet?

If your existence and knowledge is the key to obtaining aircraft at the proper market rate then wouldn't you consider it a threat to your job if JetNet did have accurate data?


:lol:

JetNet is just data... it takes much more than good data to buy an airplane. JetNet is a tool, and a good one, but that doesn’t replace what we do.

Knowing what airplane A sold for is needed to buy airplane B, but it doesn’t cause the owner to sell it for that.

Plus, if all you are doing is looking at Controller you are competing with every other buyer out there and you’ll end up paying too much for a legacy airplane and retail for a late model.

Getting an airplane under contract at the right price is quite a feat... but once you’ve done that you’re only about 25% of the way to purchasing an airplane. Still a lot of work to do.
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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
If a buyer goes out and starts making $1.3m offers on 100’s it won’t take long before his name is mud and those guys won’t even return his calls.

One of the reasons we have such good relationships with broker / dealers is that we are not competitors, we bring them buyers, so they do tend to share info with us very openly.

The other reason is we bring them reasonable offers from qualified purchasers. A broker typically has an obligation to take all offers to the owner, the lowball offers just make the owner (broker’s client) mad.

Oh wow..... You guys are like the aircraft Mafia.

You're telling me brokers will refuse to sell an airplane to a qualified buyer that sees all the 100's sitting on the market because he's making offers lower than what the Aircraft Mafias mutually agreed to reasonable accept price?

You yourself have admitted here that nobody has asked you to buy a Phenom 100 for them. Maybe that's the case everywhere?


I have to point out that we are NOT aircraft brokers... we do not sell aircraft and we do not broker aircaft.

It’s not that the brokers are the Mafia, though some are probably in the Mafia. It’s that they all talk. If a guy makes a lowball offer or stiffs the seller on a demo flight, the word gets around.

You mentioned Mafia... I have known of brokers over the years who were backed by the Mafia, thugs with machine guns at their dealership. I know of guys who are engaged in drug trafficking and money laundering. Many... too many... that have been to prison. One that’s on his way back. Not to mention plenty of con men.

These aren’t people in the aircraft underworld... they all have ads on Controller.

One of the first things I learned in aviation was who to avoid. I’m thankful to this day that my first job in aviation was for a broker who had been in the business for decades and knew who the bad players were.
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We ONLY represent buyers!


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 09:09 
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
A Nice TBM B model with 1700 hrs can be bought for under $1.3m.
Or you can even get a C2. Run it part 91 in the US. Fly at 285 kts for 5 hours.
Cant get better than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 09:17 
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Chip McClure is an outstanding broker/representative/buyer/seller/acquirer and I think everyone should hire him.


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 10:22 
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Aw, c'mon now. Chip is a buyers rep. and his services aren't for everybody, but for those whom they are, his services are solid. From my offline interactions with him, he seems to be a straight up guy with knowledge and contacts, that many do not have. And, I would bet that much of his time talking to us pilots nets him $0, but he still does it.

Give him a break. :peace:


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 11:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
Aw, c'mon now. Chip is a buyers rep. and his services aren't for everybody, but for those whom they are, his services are solid. From my offline interactions with him, he seems to be a straight up guy with knowledge and contacts, that many do not have. And, I would bet that much of his time talking to us pilots nets him $0, but he still does it.

Give him a break. :peace:

I like Chip. I'm not bashing Chip. My post was serious. I didn't use green text.

In my experience, when I'm ready to buy, airplanes magically show up at my front door and deals start flying. If you aren't "ready to buy", you won't know what the numbers are because the deals won't materialize in front of you. Casually perusing the market isn't reality.

Seller like money. Real buyers have money. It works out.

Right now, in my opinion, there are a lot more minijet sellers than there are minijet buyers. Each deal will be unique.


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 11:55 
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This looks like a lot of airplane for 1.3

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... tation-jet

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 12:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
If financing, the payment on 1.7 isn't much more than 1.3. The problem is, if you buy at 1.7 I'll bet you're begging to sell at 1.3 in a couple years as manufacturers sell more and more of them into the market. Embraer is already selling the Phenom 100EV.


That's seller's talk. It's not going to get a deal done at $1.3m. That's obvious, I know, but you've been claiming the reverse for a couple of pages.

Ashley


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 13:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
If financing, the payment on 1.7 isn't much more than 1.3. The problem is, if you buy at 1.7 I'll bet you're begging to sell at 1.3 in a couple years as manufacturers sell more and more of them into the market. Embraer is already selling the Phenom 100EV.


That's seller's talk. It's not going to get a deal done at $1.3m. That's obvious, I know, but you've been claiming the reverse for a couple of pages.

Ashley

I've written a lot since that post.

In my experience..... asking prices disappear when you're really in the market. 1.7 and 1.3 are not far apart. You're acting like I said "a $50MM Gulfstream could be had for $25MM".

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 13:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
This looks like a lot of airplane for 1.3

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... tation-jet

6500 hours. I think 1.3 is high for that plane.


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