You found the golden goose.

Thanks to everyone that has posted.

I agree with Stetson...these birds (like any other) can cost a lot of money to maintain depending on where you take them and whether or not one is willing or able to turn wrenches.

With a $5k annual inspection base rate (no discrepancy) i can see how easily a "routine annual inspection can run into the 5 figures easily...

i heard someone mention 80hrs to rig a twin Cessna landing gear...that number is waaaay off the mark. If a shop has done it before, 10-20hrs is more appropriate.

What I do not have yet, and hope to find (hint, hint), is a twin Cessna landing gear rigging book similar to what ABS did a few years back. that was an awesome pub.

anyone seen such a thing?

Good discussion...different opinions reached from different experiences, all good.
We are very involved in the maintenance of this bird, and past experience would suggest that it will (has already become??) a much better maintained mechanical contraption when we sell it than it was when we purchased it. So, while that process isn't free, it does usually pay dividends on various accounts, personal satisfaction & safety being only a couple of those accounts.
We are situated between two very capable shops. Neither "gets the keys thrown at them", & neither does anything without discussion. We do what we can, they do the rest, often with me being present & assisting.
I really am not sure what their rate per hour is, & I really am not too concerned about that detail. The cheapest mechanic is the one that responds in a timely manner to the need, is good at troubleshooting, willing to install used/reman/owner supplied parts as appropriate, & uses common sense in the maintenance recommendations. A few dollars either way on the rate per hr is peanuts in the total costs of keeping this bird happy.
I would gladly to pay less per hour of course, but I prefer that my mechanic does well financially, & the market will keep him honest. We will assist that process if need be.
Glad you have the Golden Goose (egg??) Stetson! Just don't squeeze him too hard, he may quit producing those golden eggs! And in my experience you better be saving the coin, because the annual expenses that you're sharing with us aren't sustainable with a larger Twin Cessna. YM of course MV.

Gary Stull

Yes. Twin Cessna Flyer has a DVD and booklet called Rig It Right.

https://www.twincessna.org/mobile/OnLineStore.asp

I hear about guys running C421's paying less than $10K in mx / yr and even know someone in the local area who has owned a C421C for some time now who boasts about his low mx costs. In his case, he has an employee in his company that's also an A&P who does his mx and annual inspections. He says his typical annual is in the $8K range, assuming nothing significant is wrong. So, I'm sure it CAN be done.

However, my guess is that if you took any C421 that's had many years of low cost mx to a twin cessna specialist shop, they would likely find $50K-100K in squawks. That's not because the twin cessna shops are making stuff up or trying to rip someone off, it's because they work on these everyday and know what to look for, what breaks and what to be mindful of. The average, non-specialist mechanic can complete an inspection and sign off an annual but also miss a great deal.

Who is the better shop? Is it the guy that hands you a bill for $8K and minimal issues or the shop that hands you a squawk list with 20 additional items that they found which truly deserve attention? You don't have to do the entire list of 20 items and you can choose to defer those which aren't airworthy but wouldn't you rather know about them?

In my case, I would never have bought one if a twin cessna specialist did not do the pre-buy. That would've been mandatory on my purchase agreement. Many of these birds end up passing through a twin cessna shop for prebuys, because of their expertise.

I guess my point is that you can get away with low mx costs on these birds for a period of time but at some point it's going to catch up with you either at the time of sale or on to the next owner.

Again, I never owned one but that was my conclusion after a year of doing the homework and talking to a many owners and mechanics as I could.

Well stated, Don.

I agree with that point
1) big name shops will find $100K in squawks
2) they're not trying to rip anybody off

I used to agree with Don that they knew better. I don't anymore. I think it's a philosophical difference that aircraft should be maintained in substantively close-to-new configuration and not airworthy. You can certainly defer maintenance on a 421, but there's a legitimate difference of opinion between see a crack, replace a part and see a crack,stop drill a crack. It's not unreasonable to maintain a 421 in merely airworthy condition. That's still gonna cost $10K/yr, but not $100K.

Respectfully Don,

I disagree. It's easy to "find" $50k of repairs in any legacy airplane...the question becomes does that part need to be replaced, repaired, or left alone? The answer should depend on what is the risk, mitigation, probability of failure before next inspection interval, and cost of various options?

It's easy to say replace or overhaul an item that isn't up to new standards...anyone can do that...and rack up large bills in the process.

It takes skill to know what can be allowed to stay in less than optimal condition vs what can be repaired, vs overhauled, vs replaced. THAT is a skill worth paying for.

Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part, I find mechanics too quick to replace parts and not used to being asked WHY something should be replaced.

This is exactly what I did. I had an expert do a pre-buy. I flew the plane back and had my mechanic address most all the issues. There were a few items I didn't fix because they were nit picky and weren't any concern for safety. The expert saved me a ton on the purchase.

That's exactly why I have Savvy oversee the maintenance on both my SR22 and Seneca. They are excellent at bringing a level of common sense to the a/c maint world and have saved me many thousands of dollars of unnecessary maint on both airplanes already. My plan with the C421 was to also have Savvy oversee the mx on it as well. I also do not believe in just tossing the keys to someone and writing blank checks.

Another datapoint:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/m5-tdjz0p54[/youtube]

In an attempt to steer the thread back on track what other aircraft could do this mission pressurization and greater speed? More space would also be great.

Malibu. 200lb fuel would be doable for your milk run. Would leave 1100ish payload, maybe more on a carefully chosen plane.

Seen that video. It's also not representative.

1. Did you note what he pays for hanger & insurance?

2. Did you note that he doesn't run LOP?

It's been a while since I saw this video, but I remember thinking "this guy has no clue how to run a plane economically!"