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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase  Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 11:03 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20246
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Honestly for myself Tim, I'm a bit less concerned about the total $$ and more concerned about the time commitment. If it cost $10K or $30K more for mx or unforeseen costs / yr than what I had figured, I would be less bothered than if it required that I spend time every week or after every flight talking to mechanics, digging through mx manuals trying to constantly troubleshoot gremlins. I don't have the time to be a flight ops manager and mx director at this point in my business. If you need reliable business transport, you need turbine. I believe I am flying at about the same cost per mile as a 421 but I do it with far better reliability, much faster, and with unleaded cheap fuel. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 11:33 |
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Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3307
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
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Username Protected wrote: Easy with a 421. Start pushing 60K and that is when the maintenance becomes time consuming.
In your case, I'd expect one 1/2 shop day every two months plus the annual. 7 shop visits per year? Ugh...
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Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 12:04 |
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Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3307
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
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Username Protected wrote: Honestly for myself Tim, I'm a bit less concerned about the total $$ and more concerned about the time commitment. If it cost $10K or $30K more for mx or unforeseen costs / yr than what I had figured, I would be less bothered than if it required that I spend time every week or after every flight talking to mechanics, digging through mx manuals trying to constantly troubleshoot gremlins. I don't have the time to be a flight ops manager and mx director at this point in my business. If you need reliable business transport, you need turbine. I believe I am flying at about the same cost per mile as a 421 but I do it with far better reliability, much faster, and with unleaded cheap fuel. Mike C.
I'm sure you're right Mike and I may be eventually heading in that direction. Still can't help drooling over 421's...
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Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 12:32 |
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Joined: 01/09/13
Posts: 1249
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Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
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Business travel would be a mission that does require the reliability factor. My missions are for vacation spots with the family so I plan MX visits accordantly to include annuals, oil change and a mx look over for these trips. I wish I could justify the turbine for the speed. I think the comfort of the 421 is similar to any C90 or Mu2 but of course your getting to the destination quicker.
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Good Luck,
Tim
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 09 Feb 2015, 00:00 |
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Joined: 12/29/10
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Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: Business travel would be a mission that does require the reliability factor. My missions are for vacation spots with the family so I plan MX visits accordantly My family missions need more reliability than my business missions! I can handle a pissed off client, but I've got to live with an upset family... Robert
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 09 Feb 2015, 08:28 |
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Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3307
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
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Username Protected wrote: Business travel would be a mission that does require the reliability factor. My missions are for vacation spots with the family so I plan MX visits accordantly My family missions need more reliability than my business missions! I can handle a pissed off client, but I've got to live with an upset family... Robert
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Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 08:50 |
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Joined: 01/09/13
Posts: 1249
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Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
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I'd like to hear some thoughts or opinions on buying planes with Damage history.
DO you not purchase planes with damage history?
Purchase but deduct dollars on the purchase?
Particularly- nose gear collapse -- engines and props taken off repaired and put back on, is this a repairable and return to service accident ?
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Good Luck,
Tim
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Last edited on 12 Feb 2015, 09:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 08:55 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13462
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Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
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Username Protected wrote: I'd like to hear some thoughts or opinions on buying planes with Damage history.
DO you not purchase planes with damage history?
Purchase but deduct dollars on the purchase?
Particularly- nose gear collapse -- engines and props taken off repaired and put back on, is this a repairable and return to service accident ? That event is far more common with Bonanzas. Not many 421s are geared up. A collapse is rare. Personally, that would be a problem for me with a 421.
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My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 10:14 |
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Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 2759
Post Likes: +2589
Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: I'd like to hear some thoughts or opinions on buying planes with Damage history.
DO you not purchase planes with damage history?
Purchase but deduct dollars on the purchase?
Particularly- nose gear collapse -- engines and props taken off repaired and put back on, is this a repairable and return to service accident ? That event is far more common with Bonanzas. Not many 421s are geared up. A collapse is rare. Personally, that would be a problem for me with a 421.
Having had a nose wheel collapse in a 421, I'll take the opposite view... My downlock actuator sheared at the rod end bolt and, unbeknownst to me, the nose gear was basically hanging in the wind - I had three greens (the micro switch is in the downlock actuator, and it was fully extended!) but as soon as the nose wheel came down it folded right up and I said "oh s$$$".
Airplane was repaired, engines torn down, new props, etc. I don't think anyone could tell there had been damage without looking at the logs.
The only thing I would be concerned about are the engines and cases. If the airplane had new engines since the event, then I would buy an airplane with that kind of damage history without a second thought. Same engines, but just with a sudden stoppage inspection? Dunno. Depends who did the engine work and what they did.
Airframe wise, it's a pretty straight forward repair.
Robert
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 12 Feb 2015, 19:37 |
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Joined: 08/21/14
Posts: 287
Post Likes: +88
Location: KPDK
Aircraft: C421B MU2-40 Solitai
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Username Protected wrote: I'd like to hear some thoughts or opinions on buying planes with Damage history.
DO you not purchase planes with damage history?
Purchase but deduct dollars on the purchase?
Particularly- nose gear collapse -- engines and props taken off repaired and put back on, is this a repairable and return to service accident ? Tim If your looking at that 76 421C with great radios that had the nose collapse. If it was repaired properly, I would jump on it. Looks like a great plane.
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Sandy
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Ownership and Purchase Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 08:21 |
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Joined: 07/12/11
Posts: 1677
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Company: Victory 1 Performance
Location: Mooresville,NC
Aircraft: C501SP
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Tim...may be a good idea before taking the plunge...contact Tony Saxton at T.A.S. Aviation in Defiance, Oh.....one of the premier Cessna experts in the country. I remember a seminar at OSH ..... presented by Tony....great information!!! And Marla may know of a few birds for sale that are not listed. Happy hunting...and good luck!!! http://www.tas-aviation.com/index
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Smooth landings.........
Conrad
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