Good day,

Does anyone have a good contact for a DER/FAA rep that might be helpful in examining the parameters for having a basic smoke system installed in a certified airplane?

I'm based in DFW, but that sure doesn't limit me from talking to people elsewhere I don't believe. I figure your recommendations are better than cold calling the FSDO, at least it's a step I'd like to take first..

Thank you!

What aircraft, engine, etc... some planes have been down this path before and you may have several options to follow the trail blazed by another 337

It's a 1997 Extra 200, with a Lycoming AEIO-360 (200hp)

I had a very nice conversation with the owner of Smoking Airplanes today, who was nice enough to send a message out to their sales database to see if anyone had put one of their systems in a 200. He's a class act.

The 200 did not come from the factory with smoke. Extra made an add-on smoke system for the airplane many moons ago, but that system and all of its components are no longer available and even the drawings of it no longer exist at the factory in Germany.

I have examined our options based on the weight and balance of the aircraft, and the two options seem to be:

1. Place a smoke tank and pump in the same location that the factory system did, underneath the main acro tank in front of the front seat. This would be a more "permanent" install, obviously..

or...

2. Buy a smoking airplanes kit, and use a foam mold where the tank and pump could be strapped into the front seat, and have quick disconnects for oil, power, switch. It would be completely removable with the exception of the plumbing and quick disconnects.

I prefer #1, as #2 has the ability to make a complete mess inside the airplane.. but I'd like to have an opportunity to discuss this with the right DER and see what my options are.

Thanks!

You don't have to use a DER to get this field approved, although that certainly will also work.... A decent A&P IA willing to work with the local FSDO can hash out the FAA 337 to approve either a one off smoke setup with your own parts, or a Smoking Airplanes setup for your Extra.

Feel free to PM me. I'm not a DER, but I do understand the field approval process and I like acro planes.

I've been down this path.

You dont need a DER or a field approval. It's a minor modification. Simple sign-off from your IA and go on down the road. Check out the FAR's on what a major and minor modification is. The FAA also put out an advisory circular with a flowchart that can help you justify it to your mechanic.

A tank with flammable fluid mounted (and vented?) in the cockpit of an aerobatic airplane capable of +-6 G or more with an electric pump and lines penetrating the firewall is a minor alteration?

If a IA declares it a minor alteration how does a different IA handle it down the road during an annual inspection. If there is no 337 or data to conform to or drawings. I wonder this about a lot of minor changes. Is the later IA performing an annual responsible? Since there is no data to see if it conforms and it is not in any manufacturer checklist or parts book what can you inspect?

I agree a smoke system is a major alteration.

Nowadays, FAA inspectors do not have the discretion the had years ago. They have to abide by Manual 8900.1 and AC 43-210A.

There were a group of T6' owners that were led to believe a smoke system was a minor alteration as told by a retired airline engineer. When their Annual time occurred, I asked them for the FAA approval.

They were not happy.

Per the FAR's a minor alteration is anything that isn't defined as a major alteration. Nothing about the smoke system falls into the definition of major alteration according to appendix A to part 43. I also recommend reading AC 43-210A. Specifically figure 3-1, which is a nice flowchart showing minor versus major alterations.

I'm more than happy to concede my point with some proof in the FAR's or an advisory circular that says a smoke system is a major alteration

At a crowed traffic pattern itwould be a great anti collision system.

At a crowed traffic pattern itwould be a great anti collision system.

One would think. But I recall one puppy mill student who got in a serious panic about us as traffic. And us was 6x T-34s with landing lights on and smoke on.

The OV-10 had a smoke system to make them visible to the fighters on their run in to mark a target.

One would think. But I recall one puppy mill student who got in a serious panic about us as traffic. And us was 6x T-34s with landing lights on and smoke on.

The OV-10 had a smoke system to make them visible to the fighters on their run in to mark a target.

Smoke oil is not a flammable liquid. You can extinguish a pretty good fire with oil. It is a combustible liquid and not any bigger threat to fire than most of the things currently in your cockpit.

And BTW, if you need some smoke oil, let me know. It is my business. http://www.purewhitesmokeoil.com

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... n-accident

Understood it's not Flammable but still it seems like a major alteration to me.