My good friend who’s looking at getting a TBM, has just been told he requires factory approved training, as an insurance requirement.

He’s flown thousands of hours in B737’s, and used to own a C340.

What gives with these insurance requirements?

Even my 750 hrs flying a C340 is likely harder then a SETP.

Murray

I’ll admit to never having flown a TBM, or a B737, but I can see why each might have system specific training and emergency procedures that would be well worth knowing before kicking the tires and lighting the fires.

Are they requiring 100+ hours of mentor pilot time, or just some type specific transition training? If it’s the latter, it would seem to fall into the category of not unreasonable, and probably also a good idea.

To quote Don,
BWTHDIK

Ken

The TBM can have some nasty P-factor roll when slow with it's long nose and high HP that has surprised some pilots. You don't see these behaviors in the B737 or 340. I have no idea if your friend is a good enough stick to handle that surprise someday.

Your friend would not be put in another Boeing type without some differences training. Probably good to spend a bit of time learning about the quirks of any new type.

He actually had lined up a fellow that does a three day check, so he certainly was going to get checked out. Originally the insurance wanted another 10 hours dual! What are they going to do for 10 hours after a 3 day course?

Also he was just checked out on a Cirrus with G1000 and has been in a Cessna Mustang with G1000.
When you call SimCom it’s a five or seven day course, why, they teach the G1000 for two to three days. He asked if you already know the G1000 is it shorter? No was the reply, click.

I brought up the P factor stall last week with him (especially after Pascal’s crash) and it certainly was going to be a focus on the three day course.

Murray

Murray,
Everyone I've ever known has done an initial course at SimCom or an initial in the aircraft with an approved trainer. Can't imagine you'd want to hop in otherwise. After the initial, recurrent is two days or so at Simcom yearly or in the airplane ~2 days.

I can give you some instructors names in airplane or SimCom, PM me if you'd like.

In my case I came from a Mooney long body to the L850. I'd been flying 250 hours/year, instrument rated, in the Mooney over the last three + years. Insurance mandated initial training like you mentioned with a minimum 11 hours sim or in aircraft with instructor. I think my in airplane was was ~four days with most of it classroom and briefings. My guess is that If your friend went to SimCom, cheaper than in airplane, and hired a qualified instructor to fly home with him he'd be quite comfortable and safe in the airplane.

He will love the plane. Handles well, lots of power, speed etc. Allen is right some people have probably gotten in trouble low and slow, near Rwy, during a GA etc by pushing the power in all the way in a hurry. Never requires abrupt movement and when low, slow, flaps out full, add power slowly along with right rudder and no problem. If you come from a jet where your feet are stuck to the floor during landing/takeoff or they don't know what to do when adding power naturally it can get "interesting" quickly. Training keeps our insurance rates low.

Tell him when ever possible don't use the brakes or reverse. Brakes are VERY expensive to replace and can last several years if used judicially. Reverse isn't necessary and stirs up FOD.

PM sent Chuck.

Yes part of this thread is too learn who the factory approved training is!

Murray

Murray-
Simcom is the 'factory approved' training provider for the TBM. That said just about any pressurized aircraft on the planet is going to require some facet of formal training to be insured - even for a guy who does touch and goes in the space shuttle on the weekends

I have never seen an insurer waive formal training for a pressurized turbine aircraft regardless of the pilot's underlying experience.

Thanks Tom! Nicely put. Maybe he’ll be just as happy to partner with the 340 I fly!
Depends how much he wants to “bang the drum”.

Murray

haha..I offer that reply tongue in cheek as I insure a couple of former astronauts in single-engine turbines - each of them has had to complete the formal school for the model and each has to do a recurrent course every 12 months. Vast experience operating at 28,000 MPH in the shuttle didn't even buy them a waiver from the insurance carriers

haha..I offer that reply tongue in cheek as I insure a couple of former astronauts in single-engine turbines - each of them has had to complete the formal school for the model and each has to do a recurrent course every 12 months. Vast experience operating at 28,000 MPH in the shuttle didn't even buy them a waiver from the insurance carriers

There is an organization much like BT, TBMOPA, that might have a lot of information for a new TBM pilot. The only drawback is it costs $350 to join.

I think I know at least one of those astronauts. I also believe that the one I know would say that anyone that takes on a new complex high performance aircraft without formal initial training would be a fool for a pilot. I have flown with several military and airlines pilots. Great pilots, and dang awesome in the equipment that they fly for pay, but not one of them would I put in the left seat of my SETP and ask them to carry my family across country solo.

Insurance approved training is not individualized training to the point! Insurance approved training follows a curriculum that the insurance company approved and everyone goes through it.

Insurance approved single CFII in aircraft training has more flexibility in how the days are spent then Simcom which is a Part 142 school and is required to follow FAA approved curriculum's. But if the course is X days then he will be required to spend X days in training regardless of how much he knows.

Actually just thought of another “for instance”.

Local fellow bought a Meridian, didn’t like that it wouldn’t make PHX-YYC, so sold it and it reportedly looking at a TBM-850.

His pilot went to SimCom for the Meridian, so does he have to go back and take the full TBM course?

Murray

Ask the insurance company, they make the rules, but chances are yes.