Question someone on here probably knows. Can any model of a c421 do 1300nm in still air with reserves?

Yes, but you will need 260+ gal, so 2-3 aux tanks are needed. Running LOP will help.

Do you know what could be expected running a C421 LOP? FF, TAS, ect.

Yes, but it will take additional tankage as Max said. In the C model, standard tankage is 206 but most have a left aux which brings the total to 232. You can add another aux on the right to get to around 260 and then you can also put a locker tank on the left and I think get close to 290.

I fly 1300 routinely with one stop, and it's a long day. 1300 nonstop at 210kts will be close to 6 hours in the plane - that's a long time. The good news is that the 421 cabin is really comfortable and quiet.

1300 nonstop is a sweet spot for me, and there's not many airplanes that can do it, even when you start looking turbine. Most small jets can't do it, and the turbines are limited to Merlins, Commanders, and 441s.

Robert

I looked at this fairly extensively when I was considering a 421.

Here is the range profile page from the POH (1976 421C):

Typically, this chart represents 50 ROP per the manual. Operating LOP will improve the numbers somewhat, maybe 5%.

Note the conditions of the chart. You only have 45 minutes of holding time at 45% power left when you reach the range. This is NOT IFR reserves, IMO. If you adopt the NBAA IFR range profile with 100 nm alternate, subtract about 150 nm from the range listed (that is, you need 1450 nm indicated range to do a 1300 nm trip). When you do that, you are looking at 45% power above 15,000 ft, up to 50% power at FL250. Speeds are 175 to 190 KTAS.

1572 lbs fuel is with the two nacelle tanks, 262 gallons. That is not very common, maybe 25% of 421Cs have that. The reason is that the factory air conditioner took one nacelle, so the most common configuration is one nacelle tank.

In summary, 1300 nm will be close and it will be slow, taking ~7 hours.

After looking at 421Cs for a couple of years, I decided to join the 300 knot club instead, for about the same cost per mile. 300 knots will change your life.

Mike C.

6+hrs plus regardless of how big the cabin, pressurization, potty or not is not something that sounds appealing at all to me unless it was a once per year type of thing. If I needed to do 1300nm regularly I wouldn't consider anything but turbine.

If you throw in a 50 knot headwind, the 421 would be torture, taking 9+ hours of flight time plus a fuel stop. Throw in a 100 knot headwind, not all that rare in winter, you should just not go, taking 14 hours, now you are looking at an overnight or serious fatigue.

Considering that you will face headwinds often, if you really have a 1300 nm trip you need to make reliably, then a 421C won't do it, nor will any MU2. You need Cessna 441, Commander 1000, Merlin, etc. If you allow yourself a fuel stop, then my choice would be the MU2. It will get you there 2+ hours faster than the 421 even if the 421 flew non stop and you stopped for fuel. You'll pay less for the fuel you burn, too, and the gap widens if there is a headwind.

You don't buy a fast airplane for the tailwind days, you buy a fast airplane for the headwind days.

Mike C.

Mike - Why does every thread about any airplane have to turn into a dissertation on why the MU-2 is better than anything else? There are probably 200 MU-2's flying - maybe a few more. What would the rest of us fly once the ones in existence are all bought out?

The 421 does 1300 quite nicely, just not non stop. We do 1237nm on a regular basis in the summer time (KADS (Dallas area) to 5B2 (Saratoga Springs, NY)) and we've never had more than one stop with 232 gallons on board. In addition, I'm often in Hamilton, NY (KVGC) and while that particular trip I usually combine with other business travel and don't go directly there, I have several times and it works out well, even in the winter.

In fact, this summer we came home on a Monday, spent three days at home/ in the office then returned north on Friday.

We routinely make the trip faster and with less stress than commercial.

Would a 441 be nicer? Of course! About $1m more in capital however...

Robert

Mike, you're never going to have a 100kt headwind in a piston. Days like that are when a piston is better than a turbine - you can go lower and stay below the really nasty winds.

Robert

Huh? He was talking about the 421 primarily and also referenced numerous other aircraft. I certainly appreciate the perspective. Thanks Mike!

I owned a 421 for about 4 years. It had 262 gal. LOP it burned 35-36 gph, good for about 200 KTAS in the flight levels. I flew it about 6 times per year FRG-FXE, about 1000 nm. I easily made it nonstop, even once at 4500' all the way when the winds up high were 120 kts on the nose.

My wife loved the room and comfort. I traded it for an MU2. My wife didn't like the reduction in interior room, but loved the plane when we made it an hour faster each way. One time with favorable winds we made it back in about 3:15. Cost per mile was only marginally more than the 421. No comparison between pistons and turbines. It's a whole different world.

I own a 421C with a 232 gallons setup and my experience is the same as the others. I have it setup to burn LOP at get about 200 knots at 33-34 gph at altitude. I can also go ROP and burn around 40 gph and get 210+ at altitude. I have found it a be a reliable 1000+ nm airplane, but not a 1300 nm airplane.

I do have a question for the MU-2 drivers out there. I'm 6' 6" and had to modify the 421 seat for me to fit comfortably in the pilot's seat. Could I fly a MU-2? Could it be modified to fit me? Thanks for your help.

Not a simple question. Are you willing to stop short of destination with headwinds? Able to (not oceanic)? Scheduled or waiting for the right winds? Willing to work out a constant AoA technique, slow down, stick to that schedule?
In which case, I'd bet you could figure out the airplane's CAS for Vldmax and specific range for gross weight, then figure those same numbers for lesser weights as Nam/g improve, work the flight profile for the weights at 10-20% above respective Vldmax. Then you would see if 1300nm could be done, with reserves, neutral winds or ? headwind component. You might be surprised. Or not. Attaching how I figure it for the V35TC, has worked well for me. Not familiar with the C421, except that it's a piston TC airplane.

There are seat track extensions available for the MU2. I was told they were somewhat pricey because of installation costs. I had a friend who had them installed.