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24 Oct 2025, 04:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 09:39 
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doesn´t matter who developed them, they´re available on cirrus aicraft only (right?), giving them the advantage over other brands


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 09:50 
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What have they done since the carbon spar in 2007 that wasn't provided to them by either Garmin or CAV ?


That was G2 -> G3 (I think). So if your point is that they haven't done anything really innovative SINCE the G3, then I completely agree. That's why I said I think those days are over for Cirrus.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 10:22 
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Joined: 12/12/10
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Aircraft: Cheyenne II, BE-55
As I hope is obvious from my original post, I'm not trashing this aircraft. People in aviation ought to be able to appreciate the fine points of an aircraft even though we personally would never choose to own one. That's where I am on this Cirrus. It doesn't offer enough benefit for its weaker points. If it was a 300 kt, pressurized FL250 aircraft at that price, I could look past what I didn't like about it. But at its level of performance and price, it's too small, flies too sluggishly, and is too cave-like with its poor forward visibility for my preferences. If that sounds like a trash--it's not. There just isn't the feel and the connectedness between pilot and aircraft with the Cirrus like there is with the Beech. If fact, with the limited forward visibility, sluggish roll performance, and low noise level, there’s a sense of disconnectedness, a sense that you’re not as keenly aware of everything going on around you as you should be. When you do move the stick and the aircraft doesn’t respond quickly, there’s a feeling that you don’t have the level of control of the aircraft that you’d want. Finally—last thing I’m going to say---the width of the footwell is limited by the center pedestal. For any tall pilot that likes to spread his legs—forget it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 10:59 
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Joined: 07/17/08
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Company: Walker Road Chiropractic
Location: Beaverton, OR, USA
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I think the Cirrus is a pretty innovative aircraft that has successfully stimulated the GA industry. That said I personally can't wait to turn the autopilot on in a Cirrus, in a Beech I can't wait to turn the autopilot off and feel that wonderful control harmony that Beech got right.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 11:43 
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The OP is correct. Every airplane is a flying collection of design compromises. Beech wanted speed, an airy cabin, perfect control harmony as well as that "solid" feel in the yoke, and got it all right. They sacrificed CG range and hands-off stability, but many, many pilots have been happy to overlook that to get the rest.
Cirrus wanted speed with fixed-gear simplicity, the aerodynamic and production advantages that come from using modern materials, TKS, air conditioning, a save-my-bacon parachute and a suite of technologically-advanced avionics that gives the pilot a cosmic view of the world. They also wanted the "feel" of a high-end luxury car. I think they got all that, too. The result is an innovative airplane tailor-made for those who click the a/p on right after takeoff. For those who enjoy the way an airplane feels as it flies, not so much.
Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer cherce.
Robin White


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 12:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
The OP is correct. Every airplane is a flying collection of design compromises. Beech wanted speed, an airy cabin, perfect control harmony as well as that "solid" feel in the yoke, and got it all right. They sacrificed CG range and hands-off stability, but many, many pilots have been happy to overlook that to get the rest.
Cirrus wanted speed with fixed-gear simplicity, the aerodynamic and production advantages that come from using modern materials, TKS, air conditioning, a save-my-bacon parachute and a suite of technologically-advanced avionics that gives the pilot a cosmic view of the world. They also wanted the "feel" of a high-end luxury car. I think they got all that, too. The result is an innovative airplane tailor-made for those who click the a/p on right after takeoff. For those who enjoy the way an airplane feels as it flies, not so much.
Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer cherce.
Robin White


Very well said. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 13:20 
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well said robin


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 14:49 
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Although it is hard to envision now, at some point we might want to sell our Bo and move up. Our decision process when buying the Bo last November included "what happens if we want to sell the plane?" We reasoned a clean Bo will sell at some price -maybe one we would not be happy with, but it will sell. Knowing this made our purchase decision easier and less complicated. A year later our only regret is why we did not make the purchaser sooner.

SR22s may be a bit harder to resell for all the reasons mentioned in the post (2005-2008 production run, etc.), and that's a consideration if the plane you buy is not your last.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 23:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
I dunno. I thought the G1 -> G2 -> G3 were all pretty big design improvements. I think those days are over for Cirrus though.


What have they done since the carbon spar in 2007 that wasn't provided to them by either Garmin or CAV ?


Actually a lot based on rumor. I have heard this from both a Garmin Rep and a Cirrus rep so there should be a fair amount of truth to it. All the big advances attributed to Garmin and that are "exclusive" to Cirrus are initiated and mostly project managed by Cirrus. Garmin gets the rights after a few years in most cases.

One of the other reasons why Cirrus has slowed down in terms of major changes on the SR20/22 is because resources were diverted to the Cirrus Jet. Which has yet to be delivered....

Tim

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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2011, 00:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cirrus is going down the same road that the Grumman line did.


Not aware of that historical parallel ?


American General came on the scene circa 1969, and was done by 1980. The design was a break from the traditional big 3 (piper, Cessna, beech). They offered a fixed gear, efficient cruise wing, simple design, cockpit that was very open. Lot of bang for the buck. After a few years, AG was bought by Grumman, then in the final years sold to Gulfstream.

My first plane in 1996 when I was a freshman in college was a 69 AA-1 Yankee. Loved it. 126 kts on 108 hp and 5.5 gph. The plane was a runway hog, under powered and unrecoverable from a spin, so the placard said. But was as responsive as an RV.

Everything in aircraft design is a compromise. I think cirrus has made a nice product, raised the bar for what is expected from the O.E.M as far a refinements. I have looked the various Cirri over on the ramp, but have never flown in one so no comment on that.

- Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2011, 21:36 
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Joined: 10/09/10
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R.P. Curious. Did it have Champion Fine Wire plugs???


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2011, 22:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think the Cirrus is a pretty innovative aircraft that has successfully stimulated the GA industry. That said I personally can't wait to turn the autopilot on in a Cirrus, in a Beech I can't wait to turn the autopilot off and feel that wonderful control harmony that Beech got right.


+1
I never had a problem flying IN the cirrus, they are nice traveling aircraft, and george does most of the work.
but with my bo I feel I am not just flying IN the aircraft, I am ACTUALLY flying the aircraft.

I'm not knocking them though, they are nice. just not the right one for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2011, 10:25 
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Joined: 12/12/10
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Username Protected wrote:
R.P. Curious. Did it have Champion Fine Wire plugs???



No idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2011, 13:19 
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Joined: 02/23/08
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Company: Schulte Booth, P.C.
Location: Easton, MD (KESN)
Aircraft: 1958 Bonanza 35
I like the Cirrus and have a fair amount of time in several.

With that said, the price continues to give me pause.

Can you imagine what one could do with half the budget to a solid 35 airframe?

I agree that innovation is needed in GA and my hat goes of to Cirrus for their obvious success.

Great strides have been made in construction techniques, avionics and elsewhere.

Still, we continue to lump along in our 80 year-old powerplants.

I sure wish that some could start making some breakthroughs there and yes I am aware folks are barking up that tree.

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- As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

Robert D. Schulte
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 Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2011, 10:46 
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Joined: 05/31/09
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Big Cirrus show and tell coming up this November 5th at Gnoss Field, Novato.
Go schedule a flight and see for yourself.
Robin White


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