24 Oct 2025, 04:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 09:50 |
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Joined: 01/30/09 Posts: 6025 Post Likes: +3389 Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KPWA)
Aircraft: planeless
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Username Protected wrote: What have they done since the carbon spar in 2007 that wasn't provided to them by either Garmin or CAV ?
That was G2 -> G3 (I think). So if your point is that they haven't done anything really innovative SINCE the G3, then I completely agree. That's why I said I think those days are over for Cirrus.
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 10:22 |
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Joined: 12/12/10 Posts: 568 Post Likes: +140 Location: Atlanta
Aircraft: Cheyenne II, BE-55
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As I hope is obvious from my original post, I'm not trashing this aircraft. People in aviation ought to be able to appreciate the fine points of an aircraft even though we personally would never choose to own one. That's where I am on this Cirrus. It doesn't offer enough benefit for its weaker points. If it was a 300 kt, pressurized FL250 aircraft at that price, I could look past what I didn't like about it. But at its level of performance and price, it's too small, flies too sluggishly, and is too cave-like with its poor forward visibility for my preferences. If that sounds like a trash--it's not. There just isn't the feel and the connectedness between pilot and aircraft with the Cirrus like there is with the Beech. If fact, with the limited forward visibility, sluggish roll performance, and low noise level, there’s a sense of disconnectedness, a sense that you’re not as keenly aware of everything going on around you as you should be. When you do move the stick and the aircraft doesn’t respond quickly, there’s a feeling that you don’t have the level of control of the aircraft that you’d want. Finally—last thing I’m going to say---the width of the footwell is limited by the center pedestal. For any tall pilot that likes to spread his legs—forget it.
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 11:43 |
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Joined: 05/31/09 Posts: 2304 Post Likes: +451 Location: KFHR
Aircraft: Stinson 108-2
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The OP is correct. Every airplane is a flying collection of design compromises. Beech wanted speed, an airy cabin, perfect control harmony as well as that "solid" feel in the yoke, and got it all right. They sacrificed CG range and hands-off stability, but many, many pilots have been happy to overlook that to get the rest. Cirrus wanted speed with fixed-gear simplicity, the aerodynamic and production advantages that come from using modern materials, TKS, air conditioning, a save-my-bacon parachute and a suite of technologically-advanced avionics that gives the pilot a cosmic view of the world. They also wanted the "feel" of a high-end luxury car. I think they got all that, too. The result is an innovative airplane tailor-made for those who click the a/p on right after takeoff. For those who enjoy the way an airplane feels as it flies, not so much. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer cherce. Robin White
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 12:11 |
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Joined: 08/30/08 Posts: 5604 Post Likes: +813 Location: KCMA
Aircraft: SR22
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Username Protected wrote: The OP is correct. Every airplane is a flying collection of design compromises. Beech wanted speed, an airy cabin, perfect control harmony as well as that "solid" feel in the yoke, and got it all right. They sacrificed CG range and hands-off stability, but many, many pilots have been happy to overlook that to get the rest. Cirrus wanted speed with fixed-gear simplicity, the aerodynamic and production advantages that come from using modern materials, TKS, air conditioning, a save-my-bacon parachute and a suite of technologically-advanced avionics that gives the pilot a cosmic view of the world. They also wanted the "feel" of a high-end luxury car. I think they got all that, too. The result is an innovative airplane tailor-made for those who click the a/p on right after takeoff. For those who enjoy the way an airplane feels as it flies, not so much. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer cherce. Robin White Very well said. 
_________________ TRUE-COURSE AVIATION INSURANCE - CA License 0G87202 alejandro@true-course.com 805.727.4510
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 28 Oct 2011, 23:34 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 12183 Post Likes: +3068 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: I dunno. I thought the G1 -> G2 -> G3 were all pretty big design improvements. I think those days are over for Cirrus though. What have they done since the carbon spar in 2007 that wasn't provided to them by either Garmin or CAV ?
Actually a lot based on rumor. I have heard this from both a Garmin Rep and a Cirrus rep so there should be a fair amount of truth to it. All the big advances attributed to Garmin and that are "exclusive" to Cirrus are initiated and mostly project managed by Cirrus. Garmin gets the rights after a few years in most cases.
One of the other reasons why Cirrus has slowed down in terms of major changes on the SR20/22 is because resources were diverted to the Cirrus Jet. Which has yet to be delivered....
Tim
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 29 Oct 2011, 00:51 |
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Joined: 11/07/09 Posts: 2889 Post Likes: +599 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Username Protected wrote: Cirrus is going down the same road that the Grumman line did. Not aware of that historical parallel ?
American General came on the scene circa 1969, and was done by 1980. The design was a break from the traditional big 3 (piper, Cessna, beech). They offered a fixed gear, efficient cruise wing, simple design, cockpit that was very open. Lot of bang for the buck. After a few years, AG was bought by Grumman, then in the final years sold to Gulfstream.
My first plane in 1996 when I was a freshman in college was a 69 AA-1 Yankee. Loved it. 126 kts on 108 hp and 5.5 gph. The plane was a runway hog, under powered and unrecoverable from a spin, so the placard said. But was as responsive as an RV.
Everything in aircraft design is a compromise. I think cirrus has made a nice product, raised the bar for what is expected from the O.E.M as far a refinements. I have looked the various Cirri over on the ramp, but have never flown in one so no comment on that.
- Mark
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 30 Oct 2011, 22:49 |
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Joined: 06/16/08 Posts: 3566 Post Likes: +264 Location: San Rafael, CA (KDVO)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36TC
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Username Protected wrote: I think the Cirrus is a pretty innovative aircraft that has successfully stimulated the GA industry. That said I personally can't wait to turn the autopilot on in a Cirrus, in a Beech I can't wait to turn the autopilot off and feel that wonderful control harmony that Beech got right. +1 I never had a problem flying IN the cirrus, they are nice traveling aircraft, and george does most of the work. but with my bo I feel I am not just flying IN the aircraft, I am ACTUALLY flying the aircraft. I'm not knocking them though, they are nice. just not the right one for me.
_________________ Past 12: IPC/BFR, Spins/Upset, WINGSx2, ASFx2
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Post subject: Re: Pirep 2011 Cirrus 22T Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 10:25 |
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Joined: 12/12/10 Posts: 568 Post Likes: +140 Location: Atlanta
Aircraft: Cheyenne II, BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: R.P. Curious. Did it have Champion Fine Wire plugs??? No idea.
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