BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 19:48

Username Protected wrote:

I understand why you are concerned with speed at VFR altitudes, but why the emphasis on 10k instead of say 17k?

O2

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 20:50

Username Protected wrote:

That routing, coming down over Georgia/Alabama, is normal. The arrivals for turbine a/c going into the FLL/MIA area come over St. Pete, down to RSW, then across the everglades, into whichever field you're going to.

They weren't picking on you. ATC has us down to about 6000', 50 miles west of FLL. It's just the way it is.

I wasn't implying that I was being picked on. I'm sure it's normal. But like I said, that routing just took all the speed benefit of a turbine and threw it out the window. what good is the speed if they make me turn in the opposite direction of my destination because I have a slower plane in front of me?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 21:36

Jason my friend,
If your flying Turbines you need to stay high all the time, 17500 wont work.
Its a different mentality, forget VFR in turbines.
You would have passed that KA in a TBM 850 doing 300 kts!

Username Protected wrote:

I flew my friends PC12 down here to FXE yesterday for the boat show. Beautiful bird. I love is airplane.

But.......

I came down at 25k' and ATC vectored me all the way down the west side of the state and stuck me behind a slow king air. I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

Look at this craziness. I flew out of pdk but filed out of Macon. I like to depart atlanta by flying under the bravo and picking up clearence south of town as a climb.

You can see over Tampa I finally had enough, dropped to 17.5k' and took it the rest of the way vfr. But then I was burning lots of gas. You can't win dealing with ATC.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N229NG

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 22:55

Username Protected wrote:

I flew my friends PC12 down here to FXE yesterday for the boat show. Beautiful bird. I love is airplane.

But.......

I came down at 25k' and ATC vectored me all the way down the west side of the state and stuck me behind a slow king air. I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

Look at this craziness. I flew out of pdk but filed out of Macon. I like to depart atlanta by flying under the bravo and picking up clearence south of town as a climb.

You can see over Tampa I finally had enough, dropped to 17.5k' and took it the rest of the way vfr. But then I was burning lots of gas. You can't win dealing with ATC.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N229NG

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 07:32

Username Protected wrote:

I understand why you are concerned with speed at VFR altitudes, but why the emphasis on 10k instead of say 17k?

I don't wear O2 unless I really have too.

13.5k is where I normally cruise. My plane is faster at 17k but I rarely do it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 07:38

Username Protected wrote:

Jason my friend,
If your flying Turbines you need to stay high all the time, 17500 wont work.
Its a different mentality, forget VFR in turbines.
You would have passed that KA in a TBM 850 doing 300 kts!

That's not the point I'm trying to make.

What good is a fast airplane when the guy on the ground is really the one flying it? His agenda and yours are not the same.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 07:48

Username Protected wrote:

I don't wear O2 unless I really have too.

13.5k is where I normally cruise. My plane is faster at 17k but I rarely do it.

If I had your do-re-mi, I'd only be looking at pressurized, and probably the lancair evolution if I wasn't concerned with hauling a lot of people. Possibly, the piston model if I wanted to err on the cheap side. Seems like contemplating switching planes to a TN baron to pick up only 20 knots isn't worth it. BWTHDIK :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 08:02

Username Protected wrote:

I don't wear O2 unless I really have too.

13.5k is where I normally cruise. My plane is faster at 17k but I rarely do it.

If I had your do-re-mi, I'd only be looking at pressurized, and probably the lancair evolution if I wasn't concerned with hauling a lot of people. Possibly, the piston model if I wanted to err on the cheap side. Seems like contemplating switching planes to a TN baron to pick up only 20 knots isn't worth it. BWTHDIK :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 09:34

Username Protected wrote:

I don't want to fly in class A airspace. I'm not trying to decide which turbine to buy. If I buy one it'll be a PC12. I'm saying that dealing with ATC sucks.

*sigh* I got that; I do read. You've also been stating that you want a TN baron to fly at 10k. Both the pressurized piston and turbine evolution at 17k, or probably any altitude, is going to be faster on less fuel.

After I hit the reply button, I should just hit the back button instead of the submit button. It's easier that way.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 12:03

My thoughts are that with turbines you are limited to the mid-teens to high 20s'. In periods of bad weather, you are literally flying into the belly of the beast.

In jets, you pretty much top all weather, or at least have the speed to get around it quickly.

There are flights I make in my plane at 3000' in convective weather, staying VFR, using Mark I eyeballs, SS and XM weather to stay clear of the rain shafts.

How do the turboprop guys stay clear of convection at 25k? Or do you just suck it up and plow ahead?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 12:28

Username Protected wrote:

*sigh* I got that; I do read. You've also been stating that you want a TN baron to fly at 10k. Both the pressurized piston and turbine evolution at 17k, or probably any altitude, is going to be faster on less fuel.

After I hit the reply button, I should just hit the back button instead of the submit button. It's easier that way.

Hmm. I would bet the TN Baron at 10K' is going to be faster than a PBaron at 17K'.

I don't want an Evolution. Too small, too much money and too experimental.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 12:30

Username Protected wrote:

My thoughts are that with turbines you are limited to the mid-teens to high 20s'. In periods of bad weather, you are literally flying into the belly of the beast.

In jets, you pretty much top all weather, or at least have the speed to get around it quickly.

There are flights I make in my plane at 3000' in convective weather, staying VFR, using Mark I eyeballs, SS and XM weather to stay clear of the rain shafts.

How do the turboprop guys stay clear of convection at 25k? Or do you just suck it up and plow ahead?

Here in the SE, all that stuff is really easy to fly around. I think the big jets just fly around too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2011, 12:39

I've been in some pretty bouncy stuff in Georgia...down low there is rough air in the summer from thermals and terrain, mid altitudes very rough air from building CUs, high would be great but without turbos-turbine/O2-"P" can't get there and even so gotta go through some pretty long bouncy climbs unless you have some serious HP...now when's Obama gonna buy me a jet? :tape:

Piper mothballs Altaire