Re: insurance.

I had 1700 total and 40 multi (39 of that in a Duchess 20 years ago) and went to a King Air B200. Insurance is doable, and was 2.4% of hull value for the first year.

Speaking of which...

If you're looking for multi time builder, this is what you want https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?ca ... e=aircraft

Cheaper to buy, flys slower on less gas, so you get your hours faster at less expense. And since it's a trainer, you should get better insurance and be able to sell it down the line.

A friend of mine dry leased an A55 then purchased it so that he could build his 250-500 hours of fixed wing multi time after about 3500 in rotary wing aircraft.

An AH-64 driver (retired Army CAPT) with about 2000 hours picked up his Commercial Multi and flew a 100 hour block in my TravelAir. He got offered a job flying the Sewer Pipe and Caravan, so had to get his Commercial single.

What I would normally recommend, just for time building, is finding a TravelAir or Twinkie or P2006T or Seminole, or even a Cougar or Duchess. However, you are in Alaska, so it may be better to come to one of these programs down here where you build 100 hours over 3 weeks. Some of these programs now require you to fly with a CFI and the $300-$325 wet goes to $400 right real quick and in a hurry. Others are $300/hr for a 50 or 100 hour block and you also carry renters insurance for multi aircraft.

Outside of that, with those mountains around Alaska, I would be downright nervous in an NA aircraft, even a President Baron or President 310.

You will never get the $$ out of what you put in, which was already noted. While that is good advice, look at the threads about overhauls - Engine parts are still hard to come by, Divco is busy, and some of the boutique overhaul firms are backed up for months. So, you end up with 2 IO-470 or IO-520 factory remans if you can get them far enough out. You can follow this process and talk to AirPower about current prices. https://www.overhaulbids.com/homes/piston/solo

If you buy a run out aircraft or run it out yourself, you will probably only see 50% of the value that you put in and the law of diminishing returns hits as you put more into the aircraft.

If I were paying for my boys to build time (unfortunately grounded - ADHD), I would probably buy a new or gently used Tecnam P2006T and let them fly while also leasing it back to a local flight school and probably having them work at the school on the weekends and do MX work towards their A&P once they turned 18. I went through this exercise about (now) 10 years ago. It's hard to get a new or newer Seminole or Diamond DA-42 but those have a pretty high resale value because of the scarcity. Also, the DA-42's price is eye watering.

Lastly, talk to Tom or one of the insurance folks to get a feel for the market. Sometimes the magic number is 100 or 150 multi hours and sometimes it's those hours over one year and sometimes the insurance still makes you pay the piper if you have the new certificate smell and 250 hours.

Then you have the politics of you going outside Alaska to build time but AvGas prices down here aren't eye-watering.

I loved the Navajo (in the back with the boss most of the time) over the mountains of WV, MD, and PA, but those are really just small hills to you. Seeing the red glow of the turbos is unnerving the first time as a PAX vs in the right seat. It may be the best bet to just buy a low-time example for the best value if you can find it and bite the insurance bullet the first year. Also, I have no clue what AvGas costs up there but it's a lot less down here if you are building hours.

I wanted an Aerostar, by my own evaluation (30hrs MEL) I was not yet ready.
I bought a Travel Air, put modern avionics in it and leased it back to the local flying club.
This allowed me to write off a bunch of the improvements.
Over 4 years I used the Travel Air and got about 300hrs of MEL time.
Going places doing things, IFR, VFR all over the west coast.
I maintained it with a blank check approach, anything not perfect was fixed.
I replaced one engine and worked hard to make it squawk free.
Then I purchased an Aerostar and sold the Travel Air to some club members at a price that was probably under its market value.

If you can't afford to make a 310 perfect, you can't afford to own a cabin class twin.
Cabin class twins are cheap for a reason, if you don't have a plan for a 100K unplanned event your not ready for a cabin class twin. (my unplanned event cost me ~$125K)*


I think this was a good path for me.
Keeping up with a more complex aircraft in the real world was really good training for the Aerostar. I've now had the Aerostar 8 years.

Learning Pressurization, Radar, turbo engine management and flying around in real weather without a really solid basic MEL background would be a big big step.

Id say the step from complex single to twin was about the same learning curve as transitioning from a simple MEL to a complex pressurized MEL.

One might be able to find a mentor pilot and work diligently over 6 months and get to the same place, I believe the cost will be similar in both cases.


*Lifter split in half and came loose in the left engine.
Engine continued to run and make oil pressure with one dead cylinder,.
Destroyed the case, crank all connecting rods and filled the
prop, governor, 2 turbos, turbo controller with steel metal chips.
I had to buy a new engine I got 10% core value for the engine. Had to replace the turbos and turbo controller. Overhauled the prop governor and the prop.
Total bill all in was north of $120K. Note that I have my A+P and did some of the work myself.

99% of the piston aircraft in Alaska are NA.

You don’t fly over the mountains in pistons, you fly through the passes.

I have a 1975 Cessna 310R I bought for $105K with 800hrs since factory remans back in 2015.

Here is some of the big things I've done since ownership:
-New props $40k
-Paint $40k
-New aux fuel bladders $14k installed
-Side brace kit - $20k
-Major panel upgrades- $200k
-Annuals and maintenance along the way - $250k - alternators, starter upgrades, starter drive adapters, top overhauls, fuel selector valves, an AD that they found this year from 1990 every shop had missed until now (AD 90-02-13).

It sure is nice now, it hauls 950lbs with full fuel payload, has a 5.5 hr endurance. If I had to do it all over again, I'd just get a Cirrus SR22 G5 or newer. It's one of the nicest 310Rs in the fleet, that said I'd be hard pressed to get over $275-300k for it if I had to fire sell it, maybe more if I was patient and found a buyer that appreciated what they are looking at.

In terms of an investment, it was a poor one.

99% of the piston aircraft in Alaska are NA.

You don’t fly over the mountains in pistons, you fly through the passes.

Is that an Alaska thing?

I have started to look at the 401/402 series, it seems easier to find examples in good shape compared to the Navajos out there. Insurance isn’t a requirement for me, I’m not financing but the instructors I’ve talked to want it for liability reasons.

I am curious on the wing spar AD on the 400 series, it starts at 15k time in service correct, or is it every 50 hours regardless. I re-read the AD, 2018-03-03 a few times and it was a little confusing as to compliance times.

This 310 is very local too me. Been on market about 60 days. Has all the add ons and options I want for a 310. Literally my perfect 310. I cant help think the price is way too high even for how nice it is? What do you guys think? I called my insurance broker for a quote and they said the first two denied saying the hull value is just too much. I have 2500TT 675 multi. 0 time in type. Current owner says he paid 420k for it before he put in the new interior. Im ok paying a little over market value for the right plane but I do have a problem with paying signficantly over market value. Is the seller in outer space or is this a fair price? If he is in outer space how does one negotiate with that? Everyone says the piston twin market is deflated. I would disagree.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?ca ... e=aircraft

That is a top 1% 310R. The fellow who owns it should be more clear that it is an IO-550 Colemill Bearcat conversion, making it even more desirable. Curious why someone puts so much time and money into an airplane, then turns around and puts it up for sale. Hopefully not for medical reasons…

I don’t know the 310 market at all but IF there is NDH and no corrosion and it’s all correct I would think it’s got to be worth somewhere in the low to mid 300s at least.

Yes i thought the same. Top 1% easily. Yes unfortunately he told me he lost his medical and not sure he is getting it back.

Nice looking plane. He says he's motivated, and that the price is negotiable. Spells either "my wife is fed up with me pouring all my time and money into this airplane" or "can't get a medical". Both are sad.

If that were a $400K+ 310R it would have to have something better than G5s and had better maintenance. The landing gear looks pretty bad, the boots are questionable, and the struts aren’t serviced properly. That reflects on both the maintenance history and the owners focus on cosmetics. It has a lot of nice attributes and might be worth a premium after inspection.

Is this the plane that was for sale in southern Florida a few years ago?