One doesn't have to go that far back. As I said, plenty of 6th SOS pilots and Jordanian pilots flew it. Many of the evaluation pilots in the LFW selection process were USAF. Back in the '90's and early 00's, plenty of USAF pilots flew them in coordination with DoS in it's counter-narcotics programs. We've been flying taildraggers for years, putting pilots into the aircraft with no particular difficulties, for several decades. And they came from all bbackgrounds to include tankers, C-130's, U-28's, fighters, etc. If you're being sarcastic, insinuating that the foundation that comes with 12 months of pilot training (vs how many in WWII?), 4 months of transition training, and 3+ years of operational flying actually employing the weapon system is somewhat insufficient and comparable to WWII, you're mistaken and obviously unaware that we've been in the taildragger business non-stop since the '90's and it's obviously been a non-issue since most have never heard a peep about them.

Like I said......my pilot selection criteria centers around the mission....the flying transition training will take care of itself in the normal way it always does.

Brett, perhaps we are "talking past" each other.

You said that for someone who had done USAF UPT, that it would be a "seamless" transition to an 802. To me, that means "it's pretty easy, and simple". (If, by the way, that isn't what you meant, then I misunderstood).

I've taught at USAF Test Pilot School long enough to know that the TPS students (who, in large part come from USAF UPT, and USAF active service) are very good, very bright, and I wouldn't say that their transition would be "seamless".


I did NOT say "not teachable, not do-able", but it isn't as easy as it looks. I have been teaching tailwheel transition since about 1978, and have taught several USAF pilots who have come from strictly a "modern jet" background. Most do fine, with instruction, but I've had a few who approached it from a "this little plane should be easy" point of view...and they've had more trouble. In my opinion, during an era when almost everyone learned in a tailwheel airplane "from the start", the "directionally challenged" folks got weeded out early. Do they now? I simply do not know.


I do fly an 802, and I've seen some transitioning pilots have trouble...both ones from a civilian non-ag background, and some from a military background. There are several factors....

-adverse yaw is real.
-Torque/P-factor/Coriolis effect is significant with a PT-6 on a big prop
-Trim changes are continuous...and none are automated
-the aircraft is inherently unstable
-Due to the "free-shaft" turbine design, the power inputs are somewhat delayed, and when the power "hits" there is significant rudder input required to maintain coordinated flight.


Again, this has nothing to do with the discussion of weapons systems, tactics, etc. Simply the discussion of the "stick and rudder" skills necessary to fly an 802. (Secondarily, Charles did a pretty good job of describing the fire environment...another discussion for another time).



I will (hopefully politely) disagree with you that experience in the aircraft isn't pertinent to the discussion.

There's one still in service. Anyone care to guess what it is?

I have no idea how they handle initial training for it. Some of its pilots have been quoted as saying that it's more than a handful to land and that mishaps are relatively common.
.

I know a LOT of U-2 pilots….none of them flew taildraggers and maybe 1/4 had any civilian flying experience before UPT. That’s true of the general USAF pilot population as well.

I haven't flown the -802, but as a current U-2 interview pilot, teaching the new trainees is a lot about taking a "Mil Spec" pilot, and teaching them an airplane that doesn't meet "Mil Spec" requirements.

With the -802 being designed in the late 80's, I would guess it is a bit more refined than the U-2's flight characteristics... yes?

I have to agree with the statement that the USAF needs to train pilots for the "ground attack" mission... and then transition them to the specifics of the -802. If a particular trainee needs a few extra sorties to nail down the stick-and-rudder specifics of the -802, they will get those sorties.

Correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m sure you will as I’m often wrong), but isn’t a U-2 a “twin tandem” design and not really a taildragger/tail wheel aircraft?

Does the U-2 pilot steer the aft gear through the rudder pedals on the U-2 like most tail wheels? Does the aft gear lock or unlock? This may be a distinction with or without a difference, but still a difference.

Don’t know, asking questions since to me this is an apples to oranges comparison.

Butch

Hi Butch,

The landing gear of the U-2 is made up of the main gear (in front), a pair of 2' diameter wheels that are side-by-side. They are fixed and do not steer left and right. These wheels contain the brakes. There is no differential braking: step on the left brake pedal or the right brake pedal, or both brake pedals... and the result is the same: the brakes on both tires are applied.

The tailwheel is connected via cables to the rudder pedals. With full rudder, the pilot will command a max of a 6 degree deflection of the tailwheel, and all of the steering is through the tailwheel. The tailwheel does not lock.

Winds dramatically affect the turn radius of the U-2.

So yes... the U-2 is definitely a taildragger. Think of it this way:
- your Gamebird has two main wheels side-by-side, about 8' apart.
- the U-2's two main wheels are also side-by-side... just a lot closer to each other than 8'.

But theoretically said wheels could be replaced with one wider wheel and the pilot would not notice?

Same as the Europa Monowheel
https://www.europa-aircraft.co.uk/europa-xs-monowheel.html

Thanks for the clarification.

I was thinking that the B-52 is also a twin tandem gear configuration, but don’t know how that operates either.

Butch

Front trucks caster in B-52 to turn, all trucks rotate to land in crab.

We have two sets of two gear both forward and aft. Twin Tandem gear. The tip gear don't really count.
We steer with the front trucks when we taxi, and all four trucks turn together for cross-wind crab (controlled by a wheel between the pilot seats).

Well, I suppose.
We've had plenty of pilots land with one tire blown, and it didn't change too much.

Butch,

The only way to really give you a good answer on the tailwheel issue is for me to come fly your Gamebird.

I'm free the latter half of September. See you then.

Jon,

I’ll be home in September, DM me when you’re available.

You won’t be disappointed.

Butch