06 May 2025, 04:41 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: CJ3 Take off performance Hot & High  Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 18:21 |
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Joined: 03/28/17
Posts: 8214
Post Likes: +10382
Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: I feel like that cruise speed in a jet is all in our heads. My friend that flies a Citation X says the hot days when it won't go .97 are miserable for him... Yet between climb holds, terminal speeds, vectors etc they all arrive at the destination within a few minutes of each other. 280 vs 445 true? Yea that moves the car reservation time a good amount. 410 to 445? Not a material difference in reality. The perception makes us antsy af for sure.  #bringontheheat Yeah, but nothing is more annoying than being stuck behind a slow guy  When you are doing a PBI-TEB type route along with everyone else, and you can't get 450 'cuz someone is doing .73 up there, and you want to go .80, it's first-world problem annoying. (Is this how Citation X/other fast jet drivers feel all the time?) On a ~2100 nm stage length (think TEB-VNY) the Citation X going .90 gets there about a half-hour faster than a jet doing .80 M. Bottom line, I mostly agree with you that it becomes a "nah, my jet gets there faster" type debate that matters less in the real world.
It must really be annoying when the fast jet drivers get assigned Mach numbers on oceanic crossings, and get in line with everybody else.
The fast jet drivers complaining about reduced speeds must not be getting paid on block time. Not that I would do it of course, but there were guys I flew with who consistently throttled back a little because they were getting paid on block time and they subscribed to the theory that no airplane should taxi faster than a man can walk.
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Post subject: Re: CJ3 Take off performance Hot & High Posted: 26 Jun 2021, 08:56 |
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Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 32
Post Likes: +25
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Aircraft: Phenom 300
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Username Protected wrote: There's only so much you can do with a straight wing. The p300e is in a different league of fuel burn and maintenance cost. For what the cj3 is I think it does it phenomenally well. 420+ knots at 840pph ain't no slouch and not that noticable on 2 hour trips.
The cj4s semi swept wing allows a few more mach's. I wouldn't say the P300 is a different league of fuel burn. Depending on ISA of course, but the P300 will do 420 kts at FL450 at 900pph (134 gal/hr), a whopping 7% increase  The maintenance packages on the P300 are really well aligned, if flying less than 800 hrs per year you only need to visit the shop once. Attachment: Screen Shot 2021-06-26 at 08.52.40.png
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ATP | Phenom 300 N329MC, Icon A5 N1BA | Ex SR22G3 TN, G1, Eclipse 500, Carbon Cub, Phenom 100
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Post subject: Re: CJ3 Take off performance Hot & High Posted: 27 Jun 2021, 21:00 |
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Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 32
Post Likes: +25
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Aircraft: Phenom 300
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Username Protected wrote: Not to nitpick but I was at FL450 last week isa -2 mid weight 800pph or might have been 780pph at 415tas in the cj3+.
Both great airplanes.
Bonus points to cj3+ for no $100k+ landing gear overhaul requirements! Both great for sure, just didn’t want to leave the impression that the fuel burn was substantially higher. Yeah landing gear is a sore point. Mine is going in for service in October, I am using one of alternative PMA providers.
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ATP | Phenom 300 N329MC, Icon A5 N1BA | Ex SR22G3 TN, G1, Eclipse 500, Carbon Cub, Phenom 100
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