06 May 2025, 17:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 07 Dec 2020, 11:49 |
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Joined: 03/25/12 Posts: 7021 Post Likes: +6209 Location: KCMA - Camarillo, CA
Aircraft: Bonanza G-35
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Username Protected wrote: I’d be very disappointed if the FAA knowingly approved that part as it is described. I would not accept it on my airplane without a certified letter of approval from both Icon and OKC. FAA doesn't approve individual parts in the LSA world. It's a whole different beast. It has it difficulties, though. Manufacturers have to approve any changes and updates (including avionics). If they refuse, about your only recourse of to take it E-LSA. I'm sure it's an off the shelf part. And when it was designed for it's original purpose, it sounds like it was designed to blow ON to an engine. Maybe, in Icon's rear engine design, better cooling is gained by pulling air away from the engine. If the installation meets the design, as approved, then it's legal. If grinding down the molded in letters takes too much structure out of the fan shroud, then a small sticker saying that in Icon's design, the fan should blow in a different direction (maybe a nice arrow and an Icon logo). "Front toward Enemy" is my all time favorite molded in "placard". When in doubt, it has always been - down, aft or inboard.
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 08 Dec 2020, 17:13 |
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Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 910 Post Likes: +2009 Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
Aircraft: Cub, Stearman
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Who cares?
I've flown over 4000 hours in Learjets that feature a 38 cubic foot, crew O2 bottle in the nose. When you preflight the bottle by opening an access door, it reads "OFF" it's actually on. Everybody knows it. Nobody changes it, even though people have died.
It would be silly to suggest that every Lear 35a is unairworthy. Contact Icon's engineering department with your concerns if it really is a point of contention.
I'd be more worried about the Icon itself.
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 12:41 |
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Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 21596 Post Likes: +22120 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
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Username Protected wrote: Who cares?
I've flown over 4000 hours in Learjets that feature a 38 cubic foot, crew O2 bottle in the nose. When you preflight the bottle by opening an access door, it reads "OFF" it's actually on. Everybody knows it. Nobody changes it, even though people have died.
It would be silly to suggest that every Lear 35a is unairworthy. Contact Icon's engineering department with your concerns if it really is a point of contention.
I'd be more worried about the Icon itself. This is part of the Icon itself. Why do you think that a previously bad, and potentially lethal design justifies another?
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 13:51 |
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Joined: 01/23/19 Posts: 531 Post Likes: +818
Aircraft: Bonanza 35
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Is that placard listed in the TC of the plane? Or in the POH? Or in the MX manual? If not, you and the FAA can safely ignore it. Similar to the ‘not for aviation use’ placements on fuel pumps on Pipers rolling out the factory door.
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 20 Dec 2020, 22:55 |
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Joined: 10/21/12 Posts: 1659 Post Likes: +526 Location: SW USA
Aircraft: Lowly renter
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Username Protected wrote: Jeeze, you guys need to fly for a bargain basement 135 for a few years. Agree...you learn to assess maintenance issues and create your very own threshold of acceptability. "But it was fine yesterday:"
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 21 Dec 2020, 13:23 |
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Joined: 01/23/19 Posts: 531 Post Likes: +818
Aircraft: Bonanza 35
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I think it’s a valid discussion. To me, the question is what is a placard? Are raised letters on a COTS part a legal placard? Required placards are listed in the TDS it’s not listed there, it’s not a required placard! The orientation of the fan can be verified by consulting an official source like the maintenance manual.
Edit: the TDS is an incomplete accounting of required placards. Placards can be prescribed by STCs also and maybe in other ways I don’t know anything about. Still, if the writing on the fan isn’t listed as a placard in the airplane’s documentation then it’s not a placard,
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 21 Dec 2020, 13:47 |
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Joined: 01/23/19 Posts: 531 Post Likes: +818
Aircraft: Bonanza 35
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Similarly, if Icon read this and send you a new fan with the letters benched out, after you installed it, would the airplane be missing a required placard? Of course not.
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Post subject: Re: Icon A5 Airworthy or Not? Posted: 30 Jan 2021, 00:09 |
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Joined: 02/19/19 Posts: 59 Post Likes: +21 Company: Greystoke Engineering Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Aircraft: 206H, Caravan Amph
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One should consider that the normal install for that model of Rotax is in tractor position. You may think that shaving, sanding or otherwise modifying the part would be good judgement, it does not take much to disturb the balance of the part and create stress risers to boot. Engines are sourced from the manufacturer, and they do most of the prep, not the airframe manufacturer.
Others have pointed out non-sensical markings on aircraft parts. On the E2 Hawkeye, a $205 million dollar aircraft, the electronic fuel trim box has stenciled on it "NO STEP." It is mounted on the underside with that stencil facing the ground. So unless the gravity gradient changed, a lot, it would be physically impossible to step on it.
Frankly, overall I was rather impressed with the engineering on the Icon. I finally got to fly it at Rosevelt Lake the other day. My bud got one for Xmas. It is perhaps the easiest aircraft I have ever flown off the water. It handles sooooo much better than any floatplane when your on the water. The details in construction where impressive and I am totally impressed with the wing fold mechanism. Overall, I thought the aircraft to be well thought out and well built, super comfortable. It is a toy and is just for fun, but it is a kick in the pants to fly.
_________________ If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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