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11 May 2025, 06:08 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Epic E1000 vs TBM, PC12?
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2020, 21:53 
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Yeah, I really like the Eclipse airframe, really nice plane. But my heart sank using the avionics. They are OK, but as an owner pilot, I don't want to pay for "OK" Put a GX000 in there, and it would be very nice. The PC12 great airframe, but same low level nausea with the Apex avionics, they are OK, but 5 mil for OK? The Epic, no Garmin AP, which is one of the best things about the Garmin product, which leaves the TBM for me.;-) Or for 1.5 mil less and similar range and payload the M600.


The Epic AP is Garmin politics. It'll be in there eventually


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 Post subject: Re: Epic E1000 vs TBM, PC12?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2020, 08:51 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Company: Hausch LLC, rep. Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
This might deserve a thread of its own, but since the Epic is in this discussion this might be a good place to start.

One of the reasons people discuss avoiding the Epic (or even Eclipse) is concern with long term support and viability.

What would happen if a new airplane company designed the airplane* to be supportable without the factory in existence? IOW...

Use as many existing parts as possible (even from other mfrs)

Build out of riveted aluminum with a minimum of complex shapes.

Write the manuals with lots of processes referring to AC 43.13...

Would they be haamstringing themselves be losing out on future parts sales, or could this be a viable way to, forgove the pun, "get off the ground"?


*thinking SETP since adding a jet engine seems to add some regulatory complexity.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic E1000 vs TBM, PC12?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2020, 10:25 
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
The Epic looks like a nice airplane. And it's priced well relative to what it is trying to compete with. I don't think it's competition includes the PC12 because it can't carry the load the PC12 can. It is more properly considered in the context of TBM, Meridian and maybe whatever Textron eventually introduces.

But.

The price of any asset is largely irrelevant to its cost. Cost is a function of purchase price less ultimate sales price (plus capital carrying cost of course).

The PC12, TBM and Meridian all have relatively easily predicted and reliable used pricing to determine cost. The Epic doesn't and won't for a number of years. And in those intervening years the risk that it won't be bought in large numbers, that the manufacturer won't remain in business and that used demand will be high are very significant, especially compared to the other planes mentioned.

My guess is that the Epic's "cost" will end up being relatively high. That, balanced against the risk, makes it a poor choice against any of the others in my opinion.


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