11 May 2025, 03:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Think This is a Good Idea? Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 10:38 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19989 Post Likes: +25042 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: it would make sense to be able to create the biggest amount of thrust from the least amount of power needed, right? That comes in mainly one way: moving a big air mass slowly, rather than a small air mass fast. Fails when you want to go fast. A plane that goes 80 MPH has no commercial viability for providing transportation. People can drive there faster door to door. Tests with drone motors and props, which are optimized for essentially zero airspeed, don't really capture the trade offs needed for airplane propulsion. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Think This is a Good Idea? Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 12:33 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6652 Post Likes: +5957 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
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Username Protected wrote: Fails when you want to go fast.
Sure, but they're not aiming for jet speeds here. It will be interesting to see what these new tilt-rotors do in level flight. With those huge props, they should be able to climb very well and have good fuel economy for their speed, in theory. The Grob Strato 2C weighed 24000lbs and had only 800hp (that's as if a C152 had only 30hp in comparison), but did 270kt TAS at 78000ft. Pretty impressive.
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Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Think This is a Good Idea? Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 00:47 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19989 Post Likes: +25042 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Sure, but they're not aiming for jet speeds here. Fails when you want to go faster than a car. Big slow turning props don't provide transportation by air. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Think This is a Good Idea? Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 08:00 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6652 Post Likes: +5957 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
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Username Protected wrote: Sure, but they're not aiming for jet speeds here. Fails when you want to go faster than a car. Big slow turning props don't provide transportation by air. Mike C.
So, Osprey's are limping along at car speeds?
Tilt rotors. Vought F4 Corsairs. Turbo Commanders. Cheyenne 400LS's. Big props, fast.
As long as the tip speeds stay below supersonic and as long as there are not too many weight penalties from the larger prop, only benefits come with a bigger disc area (up to the point where the air speed through disc gets below your desired design speed).
Why are fanjets getting bigger and bigger each iteration? Why are bigger drones capable of flying for 30mins, when smaller ones can only fly for 5min? Disc area.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-physics-of-why-bigger-drones-can-fly-longer/
If you want to build an electric aircraft, and assuming you want to conserve power, you need to design it to allow the biggest disc area that will move the air at the speed you want the aircraft to travel at. Everything else is a waste of energy.
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Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Think This is a Good Idea? Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 09:17 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19989 Post Likes: +25042 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Tilt rotors. Vought F4 Corsairs. Turbo Commanders. Cheyenne 400LS's. Big props, fast. All those examples are powerful, not efficient per mile which electric aircraft need. Solar Impulse 2 had 13 ft diameter props to be efficient, but it wasn't fast being driven by only 17 HP. You need slow turning large props to be most efficient. That means a slow airplane. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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