BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jul 2016, 22:40

Username Protected wrote:

I flew an Eclipse this week out of ABQ when it was 95 on the tarmac. It was hooked up to an APU and was a bit chilly when we got in. Fired up, pulled the plug and taxied away in comfort.

I disagree, the Eclipse AC is close to worthless when hot, the P Baron AC is pretty great

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2016, 07:52

Quote:

I have a client with a CJ4, AC is awesome...

And pre cools well on the GPU.

But when you are in BZN in January, there is no heat until the kerosene heaters are running. (yes, we keep it in a heated hangar...)

Jeff

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2016, 07:59

I know your feet get real cold at altitude in those old straight wing Citations. The climate control is focused on those in the back with little regard for those up front. You cook real good up front in a Lear going from tarmac to tarmac in TX.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2016, 10:00

CJ4 for sure. So much air that the noise is a bit excessive at full speed but gets the job done well. CJ2 has to be the worst of the 525 series.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2016, 23:41

Username Protected wrote:

Mustang AC is great and can be powered by a GPU or right engine. A friend of mine who has an eclipse is really impressed.

Shut the door and let it run for 10-15 minutes and it is really cold. I think it is better than the cj 2.

Cessna has worked on improving the AC in the 525 models over the years. They have made block changes for AC improvements during a models run. I know that there are at least 3 or 4 different AC variants in the CJ2+ and CJ3 as improvements were made to cabin ducting, fan speeds, and a MAX COOL setting in the bleed air heat exchangers.

So you need to get down to specific serial number ranges to determine the best AC. In general the newer the aircraft the better the AC is.

The AC system is different on the CJ3+ and M2 as Cessna tried to improve it more. I have not heard those owners complain about the AC like early CJ2 aircraft owners have.

Part of the challenge in a longer cabin SP jet like the CJ2/3/4 is balancing the AC between the cabin and the cockpit greenhouse. Flying westbound in the afternoon with the sun blasting through the windscreen heats up the cockpit. If you can blast the AC to cool the cockpit you freeze the passengers in the cabin.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jul 2016, 21:34

604 works well

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jul 2016, 22:02

Mustang AC is great, especially after the anemic AC in the TBM 700!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jul 2016, 23:12

Username Protected wrote:

after spending a lot of time in them in central africa, I'm doing to suggest that you cross off anything made by Tupelov, if you haven't already

THAT is some funny S**T

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jul 2016, 23:23

Username Protected wrote:

When it comes to aircraft air conditioning (a/c) design requirements, finding the right amount of cooling for an airplane is not solely a function of air conditioning size, but also whether the airplane is aluminum (Al) or carbon graphite, how well insulated it is, and the cabin's wetted surface area (surface area exposed to surrounding air), along with a host of other factors too.
A carbon graphite plane can insulate an order or orders of magnitudes better than an Al plane. Metaphorically, heat transfer wise, the Al skin is like a can of frosty barley soda, where the carbon graphite is like a coozie around the can.
On the ground or airborne, it means less heat transfer is occurring in a carbon graphite plane, but to varying degrees. On the ground, the differences between the two types of structure are not that great because the outside air is not really effectively transferring its heat into the cabin (low convection); but airborne, the amount of cooling needed between the two types of structure can be significant.
Short story long, when it comes talking about cooling of the airplane, the Premier is better insulated than the Al skinned aircraft because of its structure, and that aspect assists in making the a/c system effective for it.

Welcome Dane. First post since joining 3 years ago. Don't be a stranger.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jul 2016, 03:57

The Phenom AC is adequate, wouldn't say great, for Charleston when on a GPU. One thing I do not like is it won't run off a single engine (red neck APU). The generator isn't strong enough.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2016, 13:34

Username Protected wrote:

This is a serious question, especially after flying around all day in 100 degree heat to meetings in a suit. What planes (jets) have the best AC's? Only interested in potential owner operator models that can be flown SP. Have they gotten much better on the newer versions vs. legacy, or not really? Which models are best for ground ops? Do any of the SP jets actually have an APU option, or is that only possible in larger birds? I realize that it's going to be next to impossible for any plane to stay 100% comfortable while sitting on the tarmac in 100 degree heat, but some have to be better than others. I'm also curious if some have been designed for better cockpit comfort. That's one item that I would think the manufacturers have to realize on their newer production, many are bought by owner-operators that don't want to suffer like a paid pilot might be made to do. Their marketing is directed at potential owner-operators, but is the actual design?

Besides speed, range and payload...I think strong AC is moving up to #4 on my list of priorities for moving up.

Clay, did we cover everything?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2016, 13:53

For airplanes without a APU I would try to avoid the ones with a ACM.

They only provide AC when it's to late. By the time you shut the door and start the engines you are sitting in sweat bath. Another consideration is can the ACM provide Max Cooling at low power settings? It's no good to only have Max cooling when you are airborne.

Electric AC is the best option if you don't have an APU.

See if you can add something to your current ride to improve it.

I was able to install an additional evaporator and fan under the potty seat in my commander. The vent points right at me and I have instant cold air has soon as electric power is applied.

No matter what its tough to cool a tin shed sitting on a concrete ramp!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2016, 00:44

This has been helpful. I appreciate it. I toured an M2 owned by a guy nice enough to show me his plane a couple days ago. It was clearly a major step up in airflow from my Conquest. I don't know how to compare the airflow from the M2 to a Phenom or a legacy Citation. I have more work to do. Doing my diligence. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm a total wimp when it comes to heat. I need good AC. I recognize that now.

Best AC in airplane (jets)?