12 Jun 2025, 06:27 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 10:22 |
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Joined: 11/09/13 Posts: 1910 Post Likes: +927 Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Username Protected wrote: No phase inspections just a annual. Technically, that can't be true. Turboprop twins are subject to 91.409(e)/(f) which requires selecting an inspection program, most often the one provided by the manufacturer (TC holder). Practically, if the manufacturer's program is an annual inspection, regardless of hours flown, and has no other staged events (no 500 hour, 2000 hour etc, items), then it is "just an annual" in effect. I've never seen a program like that, but it could exist. Where can I get a copy of the factory inspection program? I'd love to read it and see just how onerous or not it is. Mike C.
There are a few items like the engine mounts that need replacing at 6000 hours.
My engines will be 3500 HS and 7000 TBO.
It is a TP so it's not exactly the same as a piston. With a private operator it works out to effectively completing all items during the annual. If you are flying it 500 hours a year you might have to complete some items before the annual is due.
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 11:00 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20315 Post Likes: +25455 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: From SGME to CYQK (4800 nm +/-) in two stops. Is that 2 legs or 3 legs? If I said "I fly to the west coast with 1 stop", it means 2 legs, so I am guessing this is 3 legs. What were the intermediate stops? Did you do it all in one day? Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 11:09 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20315 Post Likes: +25455 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: My engines will be 3500 HS and 7000 TBO. To my knowledge, the only way to achieve that is being on an engine program, like the one offered by propulsioninternational.com. This means sending in money for every hour, also meeting minimum usage per year. So it isn't clear this is actually saving you money over doing you own overhauls at 5000 hours. At some point, the airplane or engine gets retired, and the spent money is lost, for example. Also, it appears the engine programs tend to be seemingly economical at first, but then they raise prices as you stay i the program over the years. There's no incentive for them to be cheap at that point, they got you. If you exit the program, lost money. I never understood why the parts in the engine knew they could last so much longer if I signed a document than if I didn't. Amazing. What it does tell me is that the engines are really 7000 TBO naturally and the rules have been twisted to extract more money from owners. Quote: With a private operator it works out to effectively completing all items during the annual. If you are flying it 500 hours a year you might have to complete some items before the annual is due. Are you saying the shortest inspection intervals in the program are 1 year and 500 hours? There's no 100 hour items? 200 hour items? Etc? Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 12:15 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4438 Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Username Protected wrote: From SGME to CYQK (4800 nm +/-) in two stops. Is that 2 legs or 3 legs? If I said "I fly to the west coast with 1 stop", it means 2 legs, so I am guessing this is 3 legs. What were the intermediate stops? Did you do it all in one day? Mike C.
Yes, three legs. One day to southern Florida and the next to Canada. Last time round the routing was SGME SPQT KFLL CYQK.
A meaningful improvement for me would be to do the trip in one day with one stop, and that would be a two crew airplane as no SP jet will do it and get me there by teh time customs closes.
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 12:29 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20315 Post Likes: +25455 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Last time round the routing was SGME SPQT KFLL CYQK. What useful load do you have when full of fuel? Wondering if you use the range your airplane has, say the ~1900 nm leg from SPQT to KFLL, can you take anybody and their stuff with you? Lots of range becomes somewhat useless if it ends up being a 1 or 2 person airplane. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 12:44 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4438 Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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700 lbs IIRC, just enough for my wife and children.
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 13:39 |
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Joined: 08/09/11 Posts: 1959 Post Likes: +2635 Company: Naples Jet Center Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
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Username Protected wrote: My engines will be 3500 HS and 7000 TBO. To my knowledge, the only way to achieve that is being on an engine program, like the one offered by propulsioninternational.com. This means sending in money for every hour, also meeting minimum usage per year. So it isn't clear this is actually saving you money over doing you own overhauls at 5000 hours. At some point, the airplane or engine gets retired, and the spent money is lost, for example. Also, it appears the engine programs tend to be seemingly economical at first, but then they raise prices as you stay i the program over the years. There's no incentive for them to be cheap at that point, they got you. If you exit the program, lost money. I never understood why the parts in the engine knew they could last so much longer if I signed a document than if I didn't. Amazing. What it does tell me is that the engines are really 7000 TBO naturally and the rules have been twisted to extract more money from owners. Quote: With a private operator it works out to effectively completing all items during the annual. If you are flying it 500 hours a year you might have to complete some items before the annual is due. Are you saying the shortest inspection intervals in the program are 1 year and 500 hours? There's no 100 hour items? 200 hour items? Etc? Mike C.
No engine program required but is available. Updated SB status is required. I recently put our charter airplane on the program as well. FSDO approved Honeywell program. Engines had about 4,500 SMOH.
150 hour or annual, whichever comes first is the inspection interval.
Your earlier post, as has been noted, pointed out airframe AD's updates across several models. SB 214, for example, applied only to 900/1000 airframes to extend them the unlimited airframe life with all updates that Gulfstream built into the last planes. It was written by Gulfstream but not released until much later. All of the fleet is in compliance. Similar for the SB 237 and 241 which became AD's on the 690A/B aircraft -the fleet is already done. Since there was never a failure in either of those cases, some owners considered the bulletins aggressive maintenance. Maybe, but that's probably the price for good support and safety.
At this stage, outside of normal maintenance, a plane like Steve's has effectively no wing inspections, AD's or otherwise.
Heck, my 55 year old 500B requires a relatively minor inspection at a bend radius every 500 hours and I've never known of a bad one in any plane.
If anyone wants low time Merlin IIIC, let me know. I have your plane in the hangar . ..
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 14:09 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20315 Post Likes: +25455 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: No engine program required but is available. Updated SB status is required. I recently put our charter airplane on the program as well. FSDO approved Honeywell program. Provide details on this program, please. There appears to be a significant lack of awareness of this program amongst those I know. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 18:07 |
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Joined: 11/09/13 Posts: 1910 Post Likes: +927 Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Quote: Are you saying the shortest inspection intervals in the program are 1 year and 500 hours? There's no 100 hour items? 200 hour items? Etc?
Mike C. What I am saying is that with my normal usage (about 100 hrs per year) I will be able to have all my maintenance done during the annual.
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 22:53 |
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Joined: 08/09/11 Posts: 1959 Post Likes: +2635 Company: Naples Jet Center Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
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Username Protected wrote: No engine program required but is available. Updated SB status is required. I recently put our charter airplane on the program as well. FSDO approved Honeywell program. Provide details on this program, please. There appears to be a significant lack of awareness of this program amongst those I know. Mike C.
Send me your engines and we'll get them configured.
There is a Honeywell bulletin for commercial use that applies.
Not saying it's practical or applicable in any given case to attempt to reconfigure an engine unless it's overhaul time, but it's possible. If you buy a new engine or the 331 log book says its configured for the 7000 hr overhaul . . .
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 16 Aug 2015, 00:12 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20315 Post Likes: +25455 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: What I am saying is that with my normal usage (about 100 hrs per year) I will be able to have all my maintenance done during the annual. I'm sorry, that is not an "annual" inspection, that is a phase inspection where you fly little enough to have to do parts of it once a year. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 16 Aug 2015, 00:20 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20315 Post Likes: +25455 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: There is a Honeywell bulletin for commercial use that applies. Yes, but you have to meet the usage requirements to have that, owner flown doesn't qualify in the vast majority of cases. I think it is like 40 hours/month? Quote: If you buy a new engine or the 331 log book says its configured for the 7000 hr overhaul . . . Until you fail to meet the commercial usage minimum, or fail to put it on a program. How the engine knows, I don't know. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 16 Aug 2015, 07:00 |
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Joined: 11/09/13 Posts: 1910 Post Likes: +927 Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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I have chosen to do the periodic inspection because it works out that it all gets done at the annual.
A different inspection than a phase.
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Post subject: Re: Long live the turboprop ! Posted: 16 Aug 2015, 15:09 |
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Joined: 08/09/11 Posts: 1959 Post Likes: +2635 Company: Naples Jet Center Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
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Username Protected wrote: There is a Honeywell bulletin for commercial use that applies. Yes, but you have to meet the usage requirements to have that, owner flown doesn't qualify in the vast majority of cases. I think it is like 40 hours/month? Quote: If you buy a new engine or the 331 log book says its configured for the 7000 hr overhaul . . . Until you fail to meet the commercial usage minimum, or fail to put it on a program. How the engine knows, I don't know. Mike C.
If you say so. I have seen otherwise and if the log books and multiple inspectors see it differently, I'm not going to argue with them nor with you.
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