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					 Post subject: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 17:07   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2919 Post Likes: +2892 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
 Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
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						 My understanding of Part 91 (.409) for not "large" aircraft, is that multi-engine turbines, but not turbine singles, are required to abide by manufacturers' calendar as well as hourly limits, correct? Not a problem for 500 hour a year corporate owners, but when age brings those planes within reach of a a 100-hour a year individual, that means that the cost of those items accrues much faster for a twin turbine than a single. For example, a "3,000 hours or 5 years" item costing $15K would add $5 per flight hour for the single but effectively $30/hr. for the twin. And even the hourly limits are advisory, not regulatory, under Part 91 for a single turbine, IIReadingCorrectly. 
					
  
						
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					 Post subject: Re: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 19:10   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2919 Post Likes: +2892 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
 Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
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						 That's an interesting point. Bonanza and Baron have many "mandatory" items, like the wing attach bolts, that are widely ignored as useless in Part 91. If somebody does a turbine conversion Baron, do those things having nothing to do with the new engines suddenly all become mandatory? Or can the holder of the STC that puts on the new turbine engines decide to delete those "mandatory" requirements?
  Can of worms, indeed. 
					
  
						
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					 Post subject: Re: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 20:57   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7641 Post Likes: +5031 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
 Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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						Username Protected wrote: My understanding of Part 91 (.409) for not "large" aircraft, is that multi-engine turbines, but not turbine singles, are required to abide by manufacturers' calendar as well as hourly limits, correct?  Correct, BUT... Read 91.409's various clauses carefully. Most people just accept the default manufacturer's program as spelled out in 91.409(f)(3). But you can go get your own maintenance program approved and use it under 91.409(f)(4). Now, the FSDO has to approve it, so you can't just say something like you'll never do maintenance, it'd have to be based on some kind of realistic logic. But people have been able to get modified calendar times and such that are justifiable.  
					
						 _________________ -Jon C.
					
  
						
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					 Post subject: Re: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:27   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 02/02/09 Posts: 179 Post Likes: +159
 Aircraft: M20E
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						 Is there some obvious reason nobody has STC an alternate maintenance program foot king airs?  Maybe something more like the mu2 program- geared towards lower utilization? 
					
						 _________________ Ipc,  BFR.
					
  
						
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					 Post subject: Re: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 20:05   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 12183 Post Likes: +3068 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
 Aircraft: None
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						Username Protected wrote: Is there some obvious reason nobody has STC an alternate maintenance program foot king airs?  Maybe something more like the mu2 program- geared towards lower utilization? What is the incentive to spend the money to develop such a program? Further, Beech is not likely to share data with you, that means extensive R&D to build the data required.... Tim  
					
  
						
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					 Post subject: Re: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 22:27   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 03/04/13 Posts: 2789 Post Likes: +1408 Location: Little Rock, Ar
 Aircraft: A36 C560 C551 C560XL
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						Username Protected wrote: Is there some obvious reason nobody has STC an alternate maintenance program foot king airs?  Maybe something more like the mu2 program- geared towards lower utilization? What is the incentive to spend the money to develop such a program? Further, Beech is not likely to share data with you, that means extensive R&D to build the data required.... Tim 
  Low utilization maintenance programs are commercially available for 500,501,550,551,560 Citations and Lear 25 and 35s. I've wondered why not King Airs. I seriously doubt either Cessna or Lear participated in the process.
  Robert
					
  
						
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					 Post subject: Re: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 11:34   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 05/29/09 Posts: 4166 Post Likes: +2990 Company: Craft Air Services, LLC Location: Hertford, NC
 Aircraft: D50A
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						Username Protected wrote: Low utilization maintenance programs are commercially available for 500,501,550,551,560 Citations and Lear 25 and 35s. I've wondered why not King Airs. I seriously doubt either Cessna or Lear participated in the process.
  Robert I think its a growing market since the airframe values are getting low enough to make them attractive to low utilization owners.  It would take a really sharp DER (or a team of them) who already enjoys a very good relationship with the FAA to pull it off without digging a huge financial hole.  Good luck to whoever tries it.      
					
						 _________________ Who is John Galt?
					
  
						
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					 Post subject: Re: Single vs twin turbines  Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 13:50   | 
				 
				 
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 Joined: 02/02/09 Posts: 179 Post Likes: +159
 Aircraft: M20E
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						 I have been wondering if NEXTANT is going to STC a new maintenance program to address this with its C90 refurb. 
  If you could could do it as a standalone STC it seems like it would  breath economic life back into many older KA air frames. 
					
						 _________________ Ipc,  BFR.
					
  
						
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