Folks for those who have tried it both ways on a Chieftain or Colemill Navajo.

What would you recommend as a take off setting. 10 degree flaps or 0 flaps. Heard a debate about it the other day and see merits in both.
Breaks ground faster with 10 but engine out on take off maybe more problematic!!

I spent a lot of time driving a Chieftain and spent a week at Flight Safety back in 1991. I never used flaps on take-off. I can tell you after flying that Navajo then a B model 421, in the weather give me the Chieftain any day.

Why a Chieftain over a 421 Mark? I though the geared 400 series Cessna's were at the very least suppose to be a good preformer.

How long and in what kind of condition are the runways that you normally use?

402s would really struggle in ice, but the Navajo is legendary.

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I understand you are trying to say the flap setting depends on the rwy; if not explain your question?

I never use flaps on T/O in the Chieftain but I'm certain that it would T/O shorter and rotate nicer. But any runway that a Navajo should be operated on is long enougth for no-flap T/O... ( Alaskans use them all the time in the bush, I'm sure.)

Anyone using flaps on T/O in a light twin better have 100% perfect execution on "the Drill" cause when one quits with the flaps down, it will slow down or go down quickly.

I have nearly 2000hrs in PA31s. Generally I don't use flap for take off if the runway length or surface condition doesn't require it.

Until a bad accident in 1980 at Houston Hobby, the standard TO procedure for all models of the Navajo was 15 deg. of flaps. The Hobby accident aircraft was a Chieftan in commuter service and the aircraft was both overloaded and the CG was 3+ inches aft of the aft limit. The right engine failed at about 90', the pilot failed to clean up the airplane and apparently did not feather the right engine. The airplane rolled inverted, crashed into a parking lot and a hangar and then burned. Three of the passengers survived - two pilots, one a trainee, and five passengers were killed. Google N59932 for the report.

The FAA conducted further tests of the Navajo and determined that, with 15 deg. flaps, airspeed deteriated very quickly when an engine failed and the takoff could not be continued unless the pilot cleaned up the airplane very quickly. As a result, Piper issued a bulletin changing the flight manual to flaps up for takeoff and increasing the recommended liftoff and initial climb airspeeds.

Almost all of my several hundred takeoffs in Navajos were with 15 deg. of flaps. After the bulletin, I found that the takeoff roll was significantly extended. Accordingly. I consider 4,000' to be the minimum safe runway length for normal operations - and I would prefer longer runways if available, especialy when heavy and hot.

Just my tuppence worth.

2500 hrs in Navajos, mostly a Chieftan I flew for a company in AZ in the early 80's. All over the lower 48, lots of WX and full seats and heavy all the time. Great, very capable airplane. Will carry a load of ice. Very stable IFR platform. Hard to beat for utility. Many part 135 hrs in a 402C, nicer flying airplane but no Chieftan. No flaps on TO, please.