BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Jul 2014, 19:22

Username Protected wrote:

The CJ1, CJ2 and CJ3 aren't considered to be VLJs, although I understand the point about utility.

In general VLJs are single pilot, 4-8 seat jets with MGW less than 10,000 lbs, which would apply to Mustang, Eclipse, Vision SF50. The Phenom 100 is sometimes referred to as a VLJ even though it's MGW is just over 10K lbs.

I said I DON'T consider CJ3 to be a VLJ.

All that you listed are "single pilot", 4-8 seats and less than 10kLBS. Who cares what they weigh anyways? How much can I haul how far and how fast? Separating them by empty weight means nothing. The Phenom 100 is a VLJ. I flew them and tried to buy but at the end of the day it doesn't go far enough without a fuel stop. It's the best of the VLJ's though.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Jul 2014, 19:23

Username Protected wrote:

I agree it wont make it perform better.

That's not true. G3000 is incredible.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Jul 2014, 19:27

Username Protected wrote:

I agree it wont make it perform better.

That's not true. G3000 is incredible.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Jul 2014, 19:36

Username Protected wrote:

Does it make it go farther, faster, fly higher, give lower approach minimums or a shorter BFL, or what?
What's the airplane performance measure that it improves?

Snore

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jul 2014, 11:07

Username Protected wrote:

Cost alone. I asked that question to Nicholas Chabbert and he told me the G3000 would cost min. $100k extra for no other benifits vs the G1000.

Thanks for the feedback.
:cheers:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jul 2014, 21:02

Username Protected wrote:

Does it make it go farther, faster, fly higher, give lower approach minimums or a shorter BFL, or what?
What's the airplane performance measure that it improves?

Snore

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jul 2014, 21:04

Username Protected wrote:

This is a tough one, I will choose the G1000 Skyhawks and G500 Arrows all day over the other steam gauge equipped planes in our fleet. But...If it came down to getting to my destination quicker I would probably go with the quicker ride. Like Jim said Im using the same approach minimums, T/O lengths etc... with the steam gauge planes. Plus as current as I am right now I would feel comfy taking both down to minimums in IMC.

I'd be fine taking any and all to minimums also. That's not the point.

The discussion is about the "market". A G3000 plane will sell for more than a G1000 plane which will sell for more than a Proline21 plane and so on and so forth.

Manufacturers will continue to innovate and sell their new stuff. We're talking about the "market".

Every "new airplane" thread, someone always has to post some silliness about how "I don't need all the new fangled, whiz bang stuff by crackie!". Great! That's not the point.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2014, 01:07

Looking at it, what does the TBM 900 compete against thats selling new?

Meridian, KA90, PC12, Mustang, Eclipse, maybe Phenom 100 thats about it. I dont see anyone of them with the G3000. Would I pay $100k more for it? Not really.

Im sure the next TBM 1000 or so will have it in 5-6 years and also probably more power or any other gizmo.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2014, 03:46

Username Protected wrote:

Looking at it, what does the TBM 900 compete against thats selling new?

Meridian, KA90, PC12, Mustang, Eclipse, maybe Phenom 100 thats about it. I dont see anyone of them with the G3000. Would I pay $100k more for it? Not really.

Im sure the next TBM 1000 or so will have it in 5-6 years and also probably more power or any other gizmo.

Meridian - with respect, Piper have been behind the curve on avionics, the Meridian only got the G1000 relatively late, so I can well imagine it will be a while
KA90 - Beech seemed to make a decision to stick with Collins and there was some fanfare a while back about Fusion. That seems to have gone quiet. I wonder if Textron ownership means they are rethinking a move to Garmin?
PC12 - they made the Honeywell choice. There must have been a good reason but I have never heard a pilot say they like it.
Mustang and Eclipse - it must just be a matter of time since the CJs have gone with the G3000 and the Phenom 300.

I imagine there will be a TBM950 with G3000 in about 2 years. That's how they did it with the TBM850, which launched with the legacy multi-box panel and then got the G1000 a couple of years later.

If I were buying a $4m new turbine airplane, I'd wait for G3000. The G1000 is obsolete. Of course it still works nice, but all these airplanes depreciate a lot (except the PC12) so why pay for a new one with an avionics suite that launched on single-engine Cessna pistons a decade ago?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2014, 08:57

Username Protected wrote:

Meridian - with respect, Piper have been behind the curve on avionics, the Meridian only got the G1000 relatively late, so I can well imagine it will be a while
KA90 - Beech seemed to make a decision to stick with Collins and there was some fanfare a while back about Fusion. That seems to have gone quiet. I wonder if Textron ownership means they are rethinking a move to Garmin?
PC12 - they made the Honeywell choice. There must have been a good reason but I have never heard a pilot say they like it.
Mustang and Eclipse - it must just be a matter of time since the CJs have gone with the G3000 and the Phenom 300.

I imagine there will be a TBM950 with G3000 in about 2 years. That's how they did it with the TBM850, which launched with the legacy multi-box panel and then got the G1000 a couple of years later.

If I were buying a $4m new turbine airplane, I'd wait for G3000. The G1000 is obsolete. Of course it still works nice, but all these airplanes depreciate a lot (except the PC12) so why pay for a new one with an avionics suite that launched on single-engine Cessna pistons a decade ago?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Everything will soon be G3000. You can't launch an airplane in 2015 with 2005 technology. The TBM 900 will be G3000 very soon. They have to have a reason to get folks to buy the 2018 model over used.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jul 2014, 19:29

Username Protected wrote:

Looking at it, what does the TBM 900 compete against thats selling new?

Meridian, KA90, PC12, Mustang, Eclipse, maybe Phenom 100 thats about it. I dont see anyone of them with the G3000. Would I pay $100k more for it? Not really.

Im sure the next TBM 1000 or so will have it in 5-6 years and also probably more power or any other gizmo.

Meridian - with respect, Piper have been behind the curve on avionics, the Meridian only got the G1000 relatively late, so I can well imagine it will be a while
KA90 - Beech seemed to make a decision to stick with Collins and there was some fanfare a while back about Fusion. That seems to have gone quiet. I wonder if Textron ownership means they are rethinking a move to Garmin?
PC12 - they made the Honeywell choice. There must have been a good reason but I have never heard a pilot say they like it.
Mustang and Eclipse - it must just be a matter of time since the CJs have gone with the G3000 and the Phenom 300.

I imagine there will be a TBM950 with G3000 in about 2 years. That's how they did it with the TBM850, which launched with the legacy multi-box panel and then got the G1000 a couple of years later.

If I were buying a $4m new turbine airplane, I'd wait for G3000. The G1000 is obsolete. Of course it still works nice, but all these airplanes depreciate a lot (except the PC12) so why pay for a new one with an avionics suite that launched on single-engine Cessna pistons a decade ago?

TBM 900 article in BCA